Ep. 119: 10 Tips for Feeding Horses During a Drought and Protecting Your Pasture

Episode Notes

Drought can leave horse owners facing tough decisions. Do you keep grazing what’s left? Feed more hay? Hope for rain? Or could some of the things you’re hoping to get by with, make your pasture take even longer to recover?

On this episode of the Beyond the Barn podcast, host Katy Starr chats with returning guest expert and a listener favorite, Dr. Krishona Martinson, Equine Extension Specialist at the University of Minnesota, about protecting pastures and feeding horses during a drought including:

• Why one common pasture mistake can impact recovery long after the drought ends
• When feeding more quality hay is actually the smartest management decision
• The simple measurement that tells you whether your pasture is ready for horses or other livestock to get back to grazing

From knowing when to pull horses off pasture to understanding why brown grass isn’t always what is seems, Dr. Martinson shares practical, research-backed strategies that can help you make confident decisions when pasture becomes limited and keep a strong Forage Foundation for your animals, even in a drought.

🎧 Listen now on the Beyond the Barn podcast

Have a topic idea or feedback to share? We want to connect with you! Email podcast@standlee.com

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Connect with Dr. Krishona Martinson and the University of Minnesota Equine Extension Program on:

• University of Minnesota Equine Extension Program on Facebook
• University of Minnesota Equine Extension Program on YouTube
• University of Minnesota Extension Program Website

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Additional Resources – 

~30:34 – Horse dry lots and shelters

Constructing a High-Traffic Pad

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*Views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Standlee Premium Products, LLC.*

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Read full episode transcript

Katy Starr (00:01):

Hi, I'm Katy Starr, and you're listening to Beyond the Barn. Join me on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition myths and sit down with some of the most intriguing experts from across the country. We'll also take you behind the scenes of how premium western quality forage has grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. I'm so glad you're here.

 

Katy Starr (00:27):

Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn. Today, we're talking about a challenge many horse owners are currently facing across many parts of the country, drought. Whether your pasture has stopped growing, hay supplies are tight, or you're wondering how to keep your horses healthy without damaging your pasture for years to come, this episode is for you. Joining me on this episode is someone who is no stranger to the Beyond the Barn podcast. She has spent her career helping horse owners make informed decisions about pasture and forage management. Dr. Krishona Martinson is a professor and equine extension specialist at the University of Minnesota, where she leads the university's extension horse program. Her research focuses on helping horse owners improve forage utilization and pasture management, and she's spent years translating that research into practical, real world recommendations that horse owners can actually use in their everyday lives.

 

Katy Starr (01:29):

Thanks for joining us today, Dr. Martinson.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (01:32):

Oh, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be back.

 

Katy Starr (01:35):

And just a reminder for our listeners, any of the topics we cover on the Beyond the Barn podcast are more generalized and not specific to any individual horse or any specific situation. So, be sure to always work with your veterinarian and nutritionist before making any drastic changes to your horse's feed program. Or you can reach out to us with any questions for our PhD equine nutritionist on any specifics that you'd like to know. So, Dr. Martinson, we have had you on a couple of times, which has been wonderful. So, we've heard your background a little bit before, but I would love if you could share with our listeners about your experiences with horses and pasture, because it's not too often that we have someone with an extensive background in both horses and agronomy.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (02:23):

Yeah. So, I feel pretty fortunate. You know, I've grown up with horses my whole life. Currently, my family and I really like the speed events. So, barrel racing, poles, I think in parts of the country it's probably called Gymkhana, but more of our games. We have a wonderful association in Minnesota. And then of course, rodeo. So, we also like the rodeo events that kind of can go hand in hand in my opinion. So, speed events is where we are. So, I do like having that practical knowledge of being in the horse industry and being active in showing, but my training is as an agronomist. So, agronomy is a study of field crops, which includes things like pasture and hay and forages. And that's sort of where I've settled in because all of our forages are harvested. Some are just harvested with a haybine and some are harvested with horses, cows or sheep.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (03:17):

So, it's kind of a nice way of having that academic background in just how plants grow. And then through research, we've learned a lot about how they interact with horses. And then of course just that practical interest is every weekend or most weekends, this last, you know, it's been a little hot. So, we've had to do some rearranging of schedules because of heat and wildfire smoke, but we're talking about drought. So, it's a perfect precursor to how we manage those things. So, it's nice being involved in the industry on kind of a daily basis, both just personally and also professionally.

 

Katy Starr (03:52):

I love it. I just feel like you have such great insight on this topic. And I mean, the topics you've joined us on before, I will mention just for our listeners, if, depending on how long you've been with us, if you haven't listened before, Dr. Martinson's episode she has joined us before have been episode 37, "Navigating When to Soak, Steam, Wet or Leave Hay Dry". And then also on episode 64, "Poisonous Plant Species Horses Need to Avoid". Which our listeners have really, really loved. So, if you haven't listened to those yet, please go check those out. But today's topic on drought, you had sent over a resource for us that I thought was phenomenal for us to kind of walk through and discuss because as we were kind of talking about a little bit with this topic in the planning stages, there's some things about drought that are a little bit out of our control.

 

Katy Starr (04:45):

So, there's only so much we can do, but there are some things that we can do to set up our horses and our other animals for the best success that we can given the circumstances, right? Sometimes that's all you can do. And so, I want to go through some of those tips that you have for us that we can hopefully help horse owners and other livestock owners with. So, tip number one is don't overgraze. So, what does overgrazing horse pastures look like?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (05:12):

Yeah. So, I'm afraid I'm not going to be very popular on today's episode. Today's episode should maybe be called hard truths, right?

 

Katy Starr (05:21):

Yes. Yes.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (05:22):

So, I, I think an overgrazed pasture probably looks different than what people have in their mind. I think a lot of people, when they think an overgrazed pasture, they might look out to their pasture and say, "Oh, there's essentially just soil showing up. There's nothing green. It's just bare spots." When in reality, for a pasture to be productive, it needs to be a minimum. And I'm talking cool season grasses. That is where we have most of our experience really in the upper two thirds of the US. And really that's coast to coast. So, those are your, your cool season perennials, orchard grass, brome grass, bluegrass, your fescues. Those are your cool season perennials that are really the backbone of many pastures. We don't ever want them to get below three inches. So, in my definition, an overgrazed pasture is when the majority of the pasture is below three inches tall.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (06:16):

And I think a lot of people are probably like, uh-oh.

 

Katy Starr (06:20):

Yeah.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (06:21):

She better not come look at mine.

 

Katy Starr (06:23):

Well, and I can't tell you, I mean, when we make trips and stuff, I'm always looking for anything horse ag related because that's just what my radar is set to. But driving by, I can almost tell if there's not horses currently in there, I can tell it was a horse pasture because it's like, there's barely green if there's anything in there. And I, and I do think sometimes that has to do with limited pasture availability. And so, people ended up using it, you know, as, the resource that they have available to them. Likely they probably are utilizing hay to supplement what they can't get out of pasture, but I see it when I drive by and I'm like, oof, there's not much pasture there.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (07:04):

And you know, it is. And that's a great observation because horses can graze just so close to the ground because of their teeth and their mouth much more closely to the ground than cattle, for example. So, Katy, I'm not surprised that you can pick out a horse pasture. I also think that horse owners tend to toss around the word pasture when really something is used more for a turnout lot or an exercise lot. And maybe like in my definition of a pasture is that a horse owner is using that to provide their horse with the majority of the forage that they need during that given time, whether it's the whole summer, part of the summer, whatever, where some people call a pasture is really just a turnout or an exercise lot for their horses and they're always being supplemented hay. So, I think for the purpose of this conversation, you and I are talking about like a pasture where people have their horses turned out.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (07:59):

They really don't intend to supplement much, if any hay. And they want that horse getting their nutrition from that pasture during that.

 

Katy Starr (08:07):

As much as they can from that pasture.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (08:09):

Absolutely.

 

Katy Starr (08:11):

Perfect. And so, in your experience, how common would you say are overgrazed horse pastures and how can a drought actually influence that?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (08:22):

It's probably the most common issue we see in pasture management. And you previously mentioned it that horse owners are really good at collecting horses. We aren't as good about collecting space and land, right?

 

Katy Starr (08:38):

Yeah, it's hard. It's so hard.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (08:39):

It's so hard and it's so expensive. And a lot of times the horse industry is on the edge of the urban sprawl. So, we're in places that are just expensive to get into in the first place. So, overgrazed pastures is the number one issue we see. Very rarely do we see a horse pasture that is not overgrazed. So, it is such a common issue. And I think sometimes if you have good weather, a lot of rainfall, it's been cool. You can sort of mask the overgrazing where if you have hot and dry conditions, especially if you're like me, I'm on very light sandy soil. I'm very close to the Mississippi River. It's called the Anoka Sand Plain where I am. We have gone last night was the first day and I think it's been probably for about two weeks that we haven't had rain and we, everything is already brown.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (09:34):

So, I think a drought just exaggerates it and makes it very clear when something is overgrazed.

 

Katy Starr (09:42):

So, your recommendation then, I mean, we say don't overgraze. What is your recommendation that horse owners do? Is it best that if we're getting to that three inch threshold, should we look to be supplementing? I mean, obviously we want to transition, but supplement our horses to kind of maybe help that pasture have some time for regrowth before we can put them back out on some more or what are your thoughts on that?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (10:07):

Yeah. So, this is where I'm not going to be very popular. So, normally people want to start grazing when the grass, when the cool season grasses reach about six to eight inches tall on average. And we have to say on average, because we all know that pastures don't grow uniformly, horses don't graze uniformly. We just have to use common sense and best judgment and kind of just visually pick out when things are on average, good enough to graze, which would be six inches, eight inches tall. And then we leave them out there until they graze it down to three inches. At that time, we have to move them to another paddock if you're rotationally grazing, or we have to move them back into that dry lot and supplement hay. And during a drought, the problem is that time between that regrowth just gets so extended.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (10:57):

And if you leave them on the pasture, you are really doing more damage because nothing is growing and there isn't anything to eat and it's just going to take your pasture significantly longer to recover when it does start raining. So, again, I'm not going to be very popular, but the minute it gets below three inches, you have to pull them off either into another pasture or a dry lot to supplement hay and then it's a waiting game and you have to wait for it to regrow. There's just not much else we can do.

 

Katy Starr (11:25):

Yep. Perfect. No, that's great. Okay. So, tip number two is to assess stocking density. Now I know stocking density is not terminology that I feel like a lot of horse owners know unless they have other livestock. So, talk to us about stocking density.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (11:42):

If it's okay, I would like to, I think people throw around stocking rate and stocking density, but they're not interchangeable. And I recently came across a good example. So, for example, stocking rate is really defined as the number of animals being grazed. So, just for easy math, let's say we have 60 acres of pasture and 15 horses. So, using that example, we would have four acres per horse, right? And say it's just one giant big pasture. So, that is our stocking rate. Now, let's say for stocking density, we wanted to make this a rotational grazing system and we divided that 60 acre pasture into four even pastures. Well, that would be 15 acres, right? We still have our 15 horses. So, at that capacity, the stocking density would be one acre or one horse per acre.

 

Katy Starr (12:42):

Right. Okay. No, that is very great.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (12:45):

Yeah, but I think it just kind of helps people because if you have one big pasture, your stocking rate and your stocking density is always the same, right? Because it's the same space, same number of animals. But if you're rotationally grazing, then your stocking rate and the stocking density become different because obviously your stocking rate is 60 acres with 15 horses where when you are rotationally grazing and have four paddocks, then it's one acre per horse. But for most cool season grasses, and this is more in a Midwestern, Central US, Eastern US, where there's kind of adequate rainfall. If you really want the horses to get all of their nutrition from that pasture during the summer months or the growing season, we'd want about two acres of pasture per horse. Now, if you are out west where you don't have a lot of rainfall and the pastures are more sparse to begin with, that could increase up to 25 acres per horse, right?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (13:52):

So, it really depends on the local climate, the amount of rainfall, your soil type. But where I am in the upper Midwest with our cool season grasses, we always suggest if you have two acres and you are managing it, meaning you're giving it some fertilizer, you're mowing a couple times a year, you're letting it rest and regrow. Two acres per adult horse, a thousand pound horse. So, if you have a large draft horse, it's going to be a little bit different. But two acres should give you about enough to not have to supplement hay during that growing season.

 

Katy Starr (14:26):

Excellent. And I will say on the west, because that's where I am, if we have irrigation on your pastures, you can probably, that two acre per horse would probably be pretty accurate. There are some, some folks do have irrigation, some don't. They have dry land. So, I guess take that with what you will with your current situation.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (14:47):

Absolutely. And, and that is, Katy, where like individuals with localized knowledge, whether that be a local nutritionist, a local veterinarian, your local extension office, your local university, that is where they can really help you hone in on like just what stocking densities and stocking rates are maybe best for you given your goals. Do you want just turnout or do you want to replace hay and not feed hay? But of course, during a drought, unless you have irrigation, those numbers kind of get thrown out the window.

 

Katy Starr (15:21):

Right. Well, and even during a drought, like for example, for us this year in Southern Idaho, our drought has been pretty bad to where some of the crop farmers are actually having to turn off irrigation early, which means everybody else watering for pasture they're all in the same boat. So, that makes it a lot tougher when the drought is worse.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (15:43):

Yes.

 

Katy Starr (15:44):

What does it mean in particular to assess the stocking density? And then by doing that, how can that be helpful for you during a drought, making sure that we're not causing more harm to our pastures?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (15:58):

You know, sometimes people don't like math. And, and I, <laugh> I get it. I don't know if anybody really likes to do math. But I do think you really need to look at what is your stocking density? How many horses do you have? How many acres of pasture do they have access to at a given time? And really think about, are you supplementing hay? Because if you are supplementing hay, you can draw that out. So, you really just have to sit down with pen and paper and sort of just know what your stocking density is. And it will help you have a more intelligent conversation if you are asking somebody for help. Because one of the first things that are going to ask you is what are your goals? Is your goal not to feed hay? Is your goal just for exercise and socialization? And then what is your stocking density?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (16:45):

But another way to really look at it is just watch the height of that cool season pasture. Let it regrow from three inches to six inches. And the sad thing is it's going to take what it takes. In the early spring when it's cool and wet, that regrowth can happen in as little as a couple weeks. During July and August when it is hot and dry, it's going to sit. It's worse than watching paint dry because you're probably rolling through your hay supply real fast here. And it's not even the winter months. It just helps you have a more intelligent conversation if you're asking for help. And it also maybe lets you look at some hard truths. Like I said, I know I'm not going to be popular because as you indicated, sometimes there's just not a lot that we can do in these situations. But hopefully the drought is short term.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (17:33):

I know in some parts of the US our drought has been years, right? But hopefully it's short term. And the least amount of damage we can do to our pastures during that drought, the quicker they do recover when it does start to rain. So, I think horse owners need to kind of be in it for the long haul and just plan to buy a lot of hay. I hate when people say sell horses because as horse owners, you know we're not going to do that.

 

Katy Starr (18:00):

Yeah. I think it's harder to sell horses rather than when sometimes, I guess it just depends circumstances, right? When you have to sell off cattle, like only because of the relationship with the horse, you know? It's not a production animal. So, it hits a little different, I think.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (18:16):

It sure does. I mean, we also have cattle and some of those cattle are show cattle. So, they tend to be more horse-like because you really love them and they're part of your family and it's a little harder to make decisions. But you know, as a horse owner, I'm just sensitive to the whole, well sell them. Well, it's not that easy and maybe all the horses I have a purpose and I don't want to sell them.

 

Katy Starr (18:37):

Right.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (18:38):

Then my option is buy more hay.

 

Katy Starr (18:41):

Yeah. Try to figure it out.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (18:43):

Figure it out.

 

Katy Starr (18:44):

Okay. So, tip number three, allow pasture regrowth after rain. Okay. So, you talked about three inches is, that's the bare minimum, right? So, ideal pasture regrowth needed for before we allow horses back on our other livestock to graze. Is it six to eight inches? Is that what you said would be ideal?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (19:04):

Yep. It sure is. And if people think I'm being extreme with three inches, you need to think about the leaves of the grasses is what the sun, they use that to capture sunlight for photosynthesis and that's what keeps them going. And if you are constantly getting it below three inches, there isn't enough leaf area to intercept sunlight. And what happens is these plants then start to use up their root reserves. And eventually, if you keep constantly removing that leaf surface and not allowing it to regrow and kind of replenish some of those root reserves, then the roots also die out. And when the roots die, the whole plant is gone. So, I know after an extended drought or even a short term drought, you finally get some rain. The problem is the plants, as you know, they just don't instantly grow three inches overnight. They're going to have to wake up.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (19:56):

They've probably been dormant in some areas.

 

Katy Starr (19:59):

Replenish a little bit. Yeah.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (20:02):

Yeah. They just, they need time. So, I think as hard as it is to be patient, even after it starts raining, you have to give it time to regrow. And hopefully it happens fast. But sometimes it, it always takes longer than we had hoped. I can tell you that.

 

Katy Starr (20:17):

Yeah. Okay. So, tip number four, weed control. So, when and how is the best time to control weeds to ensure that they don't take over during a drought? Because we all know there are some weeds out there that they grow better than any grass that we ever have. And it's annoying. <Laugh>

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (20:36):

It sure is. And you know, the sad thing is the best time to control weeds is before a drought because just like any grasses, weeds also take up moisture. So, when moisture is scarce, we'd rather have that moisture going to our desirable forage plants, our pasture grasses than the weeds. So, during a drought really isn't a time to control weeds because those weeds are also shutting down and going dormant and you're not going to get as good of a kill. You can certainly mow to try to keep them from going to seed. But Katy, you and I both know that weeds are smart and they will start to grow right below the mower deck height. And they, some of those little plants are two inches tall and they're making seeds. So, I think weed control is something that we just have to do on a yearly basis.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (21:25):

And hopefully we have a good control of weeds before a drought happens.

 

Katy Starr (21:30):

Right. And I think just reaching out, like you kind of said before to your local, you know, extension offices, people that are very familiar with the local weeds and what you have, how to handle them, how to get rid of the ones that you don't want there, that's probably your best bet. And just time it, make sure you don't wait until the drought hits and hopefully you'll be set up all right.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (21:54):

Yeah, because weeds to take up the herbicide, assuming you're going to use a herbicide, you certainly don't have to. You can, you know, rely on best management practices, which is fertilizing, avoiding overgrazing, overseeding, managing that rotational grazing so you're not overgrazing. But a herbicide does give you instant gratification. And make sure you follow the herbicide label and the grazing restrictions. But also those herbicides don't work when plants are dormant. So, that is why controlling weeds during a drought, when the plants are starting to shut down, it does not work. People are always disappointed.

 

Katy Starr (22:31):

So, glad that you mentioned that. That's such a great tip. Excellent. Okay. So, tip number five, maintain pasture fertility. So, how can drought-ridden pastures benefit from consistent fertilization in the long run?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (22:45):

And again, we're playing the long game here. We also don't want to fertilize during a drought because you need the moisture to soak and dissolve the fertilizer pellets into the ground. So, that fertilizer and weed control, what we're really doing is just giving the, kind of that advantage to our beneficial pasture species. We also don't want weeds taking up our expensive hard earned fertilizer. So, again, you wouldn't want to fertilize during a drought because there isn't moisture to soak it into the ground and the plants just aren't actively growing. So, again, this is something you would want to do before a drought when you're having that rainfall. And what it does is it just helps your plants. Having good fertility helps them recover more quickly when the rains do start. So, avoiding overgrazing, fertility, those are things that just give us that competitive advantage and help us recover more quickly when the drought ends.

 

Katy Starr (23:40):

Right. So, it's just like taking the offensive game rather than defensive. Don't wait for something to come and then you're like, oh, trying to get it all figured out. These are some preparations you can do to keep your pasture as healthy as it can while we're doing well. And then if drought hits, you're like, all right, I did my due diligence, so let's cross our fingers and hope everything works out.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (24:03):

That is a fantastic analogy. And Katy, I'm stealing that. <Laugh> That's a great one.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (24:07):

Yes, you're right. It's offense versus defense.

 

Katy Starr (24:10):

Excellent. Okay. So, tip number six, addition of annual grasses. So, what type of annual grasses work well in kind of moderate drought conditions?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (24:21):

During a severe drought, obviously not much is going to grow, if any. But if you have kind of an intermittent drought, there are some annual grasses that honestly are just better at kind of evolving or playing that game than our perennial cool season grasses. And one of those is tough. So, tough is an annual warm season grass. It can tolerate heat and drought a little bit better. But again, if you are in a month long severe drought, I don't want you planting anything. But if you've had some moisture, but man, it's few and far between, or it just isn't quite enough moisture to really get the cool season grasses growing and maybe you have an open stand or a pasture that needs improvement or maybe even an open area. For example, sometimes we have a lot of rain in the spring and we have areas that drowned out or we just can't plant.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (25:18):

And then of course we have the flip side and we don't have enough moisture. It's like if the moisture could just spread itself out, we'd be so fruitful, right? Right. But it - I know. It just seems to come in very short durations. And sometimes we have areas that have been drowned out, but then they become accessible when it's drier. And it's those areas and those situations where planting like Teff, which is a warm season annual, or even some of the cereals like winter wheat. And we like winter wheat because some of the spring, it's a little too hot for some of the spring, like the spring wheat or oats, for example. And with winter wheat, it needs to go through a fertilization or a cold snap to produce a head. So, it just produces leaves. I'm not making things up. Over the last 10 years, we have really grazed horses on almost everything you can graze them on, including a large annual grass trial.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (26:11):

So, we know that horses actually really like when they're given a variety of these annuals to graze. They really love Teff and winter wheat, but they're very leafy. And winter wheat is significantly, it's a, it's a little easier to deal with. It's a bigger seed. It's more readily available. It's more affordable. Teff is a smaller seed. It's a little bit more expensive, but there are options that people can do in certain situations. Again, but we'd want intermittent rainfall and not like a full out, it hasn't rained for months type situation.

 

Katy Starr (26:43):

That's so interesting. Okay. Thanks so much for sharing that. That's great. So, tip number seven, use a dry lot. You talked a little bit about this. So, what is the benefit of having a dry lot during a drought?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (26:56):

Yeah. So, you know, I feel like sometimes I'm in the business of helping people manage risk and then just highlighting tools to have in your toolbox. Like I think a grazing muzzle and a hay net, pick your brand, are just great tools to have in the toolbox. The dry lot is right up there. I think the three things all horse owners should have access to or have on hand is a dry lot, a hay net, and a grazing muzzle. Those are fantastic tools. And that's on the horse management side. When you talk about the riding and driving horses around the country, there's a different set of tools and toolbox. So, really a dry lot is exactly what its name sounds like. It's a small area that is not going to have forage growing. It's going to be exposed soil, whether that is natural or maybe you've amended it to add, you know, some kind of a high traffic pad or you've added something to make it not just native soil.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (27:49):

And it's a place to keep horses when the pasture is not ready to graze. That, it could be it's too wet, it's too dry, you've already made your rotation and you're waiting for it to regrow. And it's usually an area where your shelter is, your water sources, maybe where you do supplement hay because it's already just soil. We're not trying to maintain pasture. It's okay if it gets a little beat up. It's a dry lot. Some people call it a sacrifice lot, but that's just what it is. It's just a dry lot. And I think every farm should have access to at least one.

 

Katy Starr (28:21):

Maybe for those that don't have something like that set up, so they're thinking about, okay, maybe this is something that I should get going. Or maybe they bought a property and they're getting horses on there and they're like, okay, Dr. Martinson said I need a dry lot. So, how do we go about doing this? So, what would you say is probably the biggest mistake horse owners make when they are setting up a sacrifice or dry lot?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (28:43):

I think it's really important to right size it because you want it big enough so that if you have a bully horse, and we tend to always have one dominant horse in a herd, that is big enough where the less dominant horses can still get access to water, hay and shelter and get away. But if we make it too big, it becomes a weedy mess. So, we want it small enough where the horse, just the horse hoof traffic keeps it soil. Just, it's a, it's a dry lot, right? There's nothing growing. But it's big enough where the horses can still move around. So, if you're setting one up before putting in, like your dry lot I think should also be your permanent fence. Like this should be a spot where you, I mean, we all worry, but this should be a spot where you have the least amount of worries.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (29:31):

It's a solid fence. You know, maybe we have access to a couple gates where we can open to different pastures or it's opening up to an alleyway that leads to our rotational grazing system, because remember, it's where our shelter, water, hay can be fed, and it's where we keep them when we need to. So, if you have the possibility of using panels and kind of figuring out the right size for you before putting up anything permanent, I think is one of the recommendations. I know it's a lot of work. But again, it is right sizing and we have some very general recommendations. We suggest people start with kind of a 20 foot by 20 foot per individual horse and then of course ramping up from there based on how many horses you have. But you know your horse. Maybe you just have two perfect geldings.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (30:18):

They're never going to fight. Nobody's interested in chasing. I have a herd of five mares and holy buckets. On some days I need my entire dry lot. <Laugh> And on some days they are all happy together. And pick the day. You never know what's going to happen.

 

Katy Starr (30:34):

I'm certain that the University of Minnesota, you guys have either an article or video on putting together a dry lot, don't you?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (30:42):

We do. So, we have an article that gives just some very general guidelines, but again, you know your horses and your farm best. We do have some videos on constructing a high traffic pad. The issue with these dry lots is in certain soil types, especially heavier clay soil types. If you're in a rainy seasoned man, can you get mud. Because when you have horses more tightly confined, you're also more tightly confining all the manure and hay waste and other stuff. And we can have mud problems. So, that is one of the drawbacks of a dry lot is you're going to have mud problems potentially.

 

Katy Starr (31:21):

Well, we will be sure though to link that resource in our show notes. So, if anybody wants to kind of take a look at that, if they have more questions on it, they have the access to that. So, tip number eight, be cautious of non-structural carbohydrate content, which is NSC is what most horse owners know that as. So, how are non-structural carbohydrates impacted by drought conditions?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (31:48):

That is such a good question and sort of a, I mean, I'm going to speak in very general terms, but knowing that, man, there's a lot of caveats here. So, we know that non-structural carbohydrates can spike when the plants are under stress. So, obviously in a drought situation, that is a very stressful event for the humans and the plants. So, even though grasses may look dormant or maybe they've turned slightly brown and we're like, oh, there's no nutrients in there, those are the times when we see some of the highest spikes in non-structural carbohydrates. We also know that, for example, an overgrazed pasture is very stressful because that plant can't capture enough photosynthesis. It's depleting its root reserves. It's sort of on the defense, right? Like it's defending itself. We also know that overgrazed pastures can spike. Hot temperatures can spike it. Lots of sunlight can spike it.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (32:46):

So, a drought situations where we can see really high spikes in non-structural carbohydrates. So, it is something to really watch and another reason to use that dry lot.

 

Katy Starr (32:57):

Excellent. So, obviously this isn't something that we probably need to be terribly concerned about, I'm guessing for all horses, but there are, there is a population of horses that this is very concerning for. So, talk to us a little bit more about that and how we can, I guess, navigate that.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (33:15):

So, we have learned a lot in the last 10, 15 years about non-structural carbohydrates in horses. And I think in the next 15 years, we will even learn more. So, a little caveat that this is an area of active knowledge gain in our horse community. But we know that horses, obviously if you've been diagnosed with PPID or Cushing's, if you have an active case of laminitis or if you have other nutritional issues and you're working with a nutritionist and a veterinarian where your horse is on a controlled non-structural carbohydrate diet, which usually means they're in a dry lot with hay that's been tested, they're probably not grazing. So, those horses definitely should not have access to a drought pasture because you're just asking for trouble. And the whole risk scheme, that is like high risk, flashing red, do not proceed. Now, if you are grazing that drought pasture for whatever reason, and your horse is in a healthy body condition, they're in an exercise program, you know, there's nothing that they have been diagnosed or being treated for.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (34:25):

It's a lower risk, but because of the spikes, we could never say it's perfectly safe. So, I think there's a, a group of horses where it's always a high risk. And during a drought, it's probably a moderate risk for even healthy horses.

 

Katy Starr (34:40):

Okay. So, tip number nine. This is not a topic that I feel like we talk a lot about horse ownership. I don't know, maybe it's different for you. I don't hear a lot about it from horse owners, but watch out for nitrate toxicity. So, how common is it and how about even during a drought?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (35:01):

It's really interesting. So, horses tend to be the most sensitive out of, it seems like everything. But nitrates are ruminant friends like cattle, sheep and goats are actually a little bit more susceptible to nitrates. Horses are as well. But it's because the bacteria in their digestive system reduces nitrate to nitrite. And these elevated nitrite levels in the blood can interfere with the body's ability to carry oxygen. So, obviously that's very bad. You need oxygen. Everybody needs oxygen. And it's much more common in ruminants, but we can still see it in horses. And this really goes back to that fertility issue. We don't want to be actively fertilizing during a drought. It's, it's not a good use of funds. It's not raining. The plants can't take it up and it's not being dissolved into the ground. And we just want to make sure that we are soil testing and then applying all fertilizer in accordance to that soil test because we want to wisely use our money.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (36:08):

Plus we want to make sure we're not over applying just to protect the environment. But sometimes, especially we see it on old dairy farms that are now horse operations where they've just spread a lot of manure over time. We can see a little bit higher nitrogen amounts. And during a drought when that plant is stressed is when we see that conversion happening. And we also see it in certain species, like especially the warm season annuals. So, that is a consideration for things like Teff, but we see it more in cattle when people are doing like sorghum sedan grass, for example, which isn't commonly fed to horses, but more commonly fed to cattle. So, it is something to have on your radar. And if you've been in a severe drought and you're getting some of these annual grasses, it's not a bad idea to test it for nitrates.

 

Katy Starr (37:00):

Okay. That's good to know. Is this something that we should be thinking about when we think about like a threshold for nitrate concentration in horses? Or what are your thoughts with that?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (37:11):

You know, that's a great question. So, when we were doing some of our research with warm season grasses, we knew that this would come up, right? Like you can't graze horses on warm season grasses. There's a nitrate issue. So, we did measure nitrates in our grasses. And really what the literature tells us to the best of our knowledge is that horses should not consume forages with nitrate concentrations over 4,600 parts per million. And when we were doing our research, every now and then we would see a very brief spike. However, we were grazing the horses in such a way where they were grazing these trials for short amounts of time. They were being supplemented hay. So, it's really the overall diet, not just the one thing that they're eating. So, we were able to manage it by making sure the other forages in their diet were well under that.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (38:05):

But again, a lot of people probably wouldn't have the research facilities that we have access to and the workforce to really manage that. So again, if you are in a real droughty area and you're buying annual grasses, or you know the farmer has been heavily using nitrogen fertilizer, have your forage tested. Considering what could happen, having it tested is a good investment of funds.

 

Katy Starr (38:32):

Excellent. Okay. So, you talked about with other livestock, ruminants are the ones that have the biggest issue with it. Any other species besides cattle, sheep, goats?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (38:44):

Yeah. Cattle, sheep and goats are, you know, are large and small ruminants. I don't think it's another issue just because like pigs and poultry just don't graze that much. So, it's really an issue with the horses and then our large and small ruminants.

 

Katy Starr (38:57):

Okay. So, tip number 10, keep an eye out on your horses. So, when horses are consuming or trying to consume shorter grass, what should horse owners watch out for?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (39:10):

We've talked about that. So, just watch that non-structural carbohydrate content. And also just know that when they're constantly eating that short grass, they're really not getting much nutrients and they're really just doing a lot of longer term damage to the pasture.

 

Katy Starr (39:25):

And so, this is probably the most helpful thing that we can talk about as a solution, I guess, for those that are trying to help keep their pastures protected, make sure that they bounce back quicker. But what is the best way to supplement forage in a drought? How can horse owners ensure that their horses can still get their required fiber intake if they're not going to be getting the nutrition from the pasture that they maybe were before?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (39:54):

Yeah. So, the people are not going to like my answer because it's hay. And if you are in a drought area, hay is also going to be pretty expensive or impossible to find or a combination of each. So, horses do have a long stem fiber need. So, you could say supplement with hay cubes, supplement with hay biscuits. You know, pick your bagged forage product. But we still should be feeding them some long stem forage because remember, that really helps when they chew it, It helps to stimulate that GI tract to keep things moving through. And we just want that long stem forage to help us. So, you're going to have to feed some hay. Now I know there's exceptions. My horse doesn't have any teeth. Yes. Obviously long stem forage is not going to be an option, but that horse is probably being very, very well managed with a veterinarian/nutritionist.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (40:45):

But there's a combination of complete feeds, of senior feeds, of bagged forage. Those are probably going to tend to be more expensive than buying hay, with the exception of if it's a drought and it's already expensive or hard to find, you might have to rely more on those bag feed stuffs to get you through. So, I think it's a combination. And you know, it's so hard. You can work with a nutritionist to make sure your horse's ration is balanced, but really keep an eye on their body condition score. Keep an eye on the height of your pasture. If your horse is getting too thin, they need more. If they're getting a little overweight, they need less. I mean, you know, I think people can use a combination of common sense experience and just watch their horse.

 

Katy Starr (41:30):

Right. And mentioning, you know, when we have horses that have teeth problems, they're getting older and it's like they can't eat long stem. Like ideally we want them to be eating some long stem in their diet. But one thing that we've always talked about is once you hit that point in their life, right, where maybe their teeth aren't as good as they used to be, you're in a situation where, well they still need fiber. So, what's like the best that you can do for that worst case scenario, right? So, they need forage. So, you're better off giving them even the ground up like pellets or what have you, whatever it be. It's going to be better for them in the long run, help them just to be able to sustain their body condition as they age and, and all of that. And give them the best quality of life too.

 

Katy Starr (42:15):

Because I think that's the most important thing as they get older is making sure that, you know, we're not keeping them here for only our, you know, sole purpose because we don't want to lose them, but making sure we're doing right by the horse and giving them everything that they need to keep their digestive systems working correctly and everything.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (42:34):

Yeah, exactly. Very well said.

 

Katy Starr (42:36):

And one other thing that I want to ask you about, and I would love to have your take on this, is sometimes people think that they can get away with feeding less hay. And when I say hay, I don't mean just long stem hay. I mean any like fiber source, right? It could be chopped hay, it could be cube. I'm talking about the gamut of that, the full gamut. So, what can happen if horse owners are like, "Gosh, I'm in a drought. I'm running out of hay. I'll just feed them less hay." What are we looking at that could happen if that's what we do?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (43:05):

Well, I think the biggest thing is it is that drastic drop in body condition, right? Horses need, you know, about 2% of their body weight in feed stuffs on a daily basis. And at least one and a half percent of that should be some type of forage or fiber. So, you can maybe get away with tightening your belts and feeding a little less hay to maybe ride it out, but man, you better have a backup plan because we don't want their body condition scores going below a four. And we want their body condition score between a four and a six. We don't want them thinner than that because then you run into other issues with muscle wasting and are we getting enough vitamins and minerals and what are we supplementing? So, we just want to keep them in that healthy body weight. So, we can maybe tighten our belts for a little bit of time.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (43:53):

I think if you really wanted to tighten your belt, you would work with a nutritionist, you would have that hay tested, you would weigh the hay, you know, you'd weigh all the feed stuff to the ounce, you'd put it into a program. You can become real efficient with feeding. I think a lot of us are like, eh, the horse, you know, we're giving a big handful of hay. The horse's body condition score is five. The hay looks good. You know, we're giving a ration balancer to fill in any holes. Good enough. But maybe a drought is a time where you really want to tighten your belts and work with a nutritionist and weigh and take a little bit more time on the management thing to really stretch that forage and to stretch your dollar.

 

Katy Starr (44:33):

Don't be overfeeding and things like that, right?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (44:35):

Absolutely.

 

Katy Starr (44:37):

And I will mention this just because Standlee has this podcast, but I do want to mention that the nice thing about some of the Standlee products is the fact that we have so many options available across the country. So, especially if you're dealing with a drought, but even if you're like traveling and things like that, you are able to get some of that access, that consistent product that would be, you know, whether you're in Minnesota or you're heading down south or something like that, you can, you can have that consistent supply even if it's something that's just supplementing what you're normally feeding your horse. So, just as some options to kind of keep in mind for our horse owners to just think about. I wanted to mention that.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (45:20):

Yeah. And Katie, I think it's really, I'm really glad you said that because that consistency and making any change is like, please don't just one day pull the hay. Anytime you make a change, and usually forage is one of the bigger components of the diet, please do it slowly over a two week time period. So, make changes as slowly as possible and be as consistent as possible. Those are great recommendations.

 

Katy Starr (45:44):

Excellent. Another question. Do producers managing multiple livestock species need any different strategies for allocating limited pasture from what you've talked about so far? Is there anything we haven't mentioned maybe if we have a multi-species operation?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (46:00):

You know, the only thing, and this would be a great follow up episode for a veterinarian, is just to make sure you're grazing in a way that you're prioritizing who is grazing first over who follows. Yes. Yes. Just to watch parasites and to watch diseases. But also if you have multiple species on the same pasture, you're going to have to prioritize who gets to graze. And that is an individual owner's determination. And even within, if you have different groups of horses using the pasture, maybe you're going to prioritize the oldies because they are better able to digest the pasture. And maybe the healthy horses get put in the dry lot and fed hay in the old pen gets to prioritize grazing. So, again, I think owners are just going to have to sit down and prioritize whether they're doing multiple species and work with their veterinarian on a, a rotation of who leads and who follows just to really reduce that parasite and other disease risk exposure.

 

Katy Starr (47:02):

Those are some great points to consider. So, thank you. And then I was curious about this as I was building these questions. I wanted to get your insight. Which livestock species actually tends to maybe damage drought stress pasture the fastest in your, I guess, experience and opinion?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (47:21):

Well, I think if you're talking about a pasture where there's no management and maybe the animals are just left out, right? We're not rotational grazing. We're not keeping an eye on the height. Just because horses are able to really graze close to the ground, if not managed, I think that they could do the most amount of damage. However, if you leave any group of livestock out without any management, eventually they're all going to damage it. But I think in the short term, just because of how horses graze, they could do the most amount of damage.

 

Katy Starr (47:55):

And then these last few questions I have, they're really kind of short to the point. They're almost like fill in the blank, but kind of like a lightning answer round. So, tell me what comes to mind when I give you this sentence. So, drought is not the time to blank.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (48:12):

To have heroics. It's not a time to overseed and fertilize and do weed control. Like we talked about, that needs to be done on the offense and not the defense.

 

Katy Starr (48:22):

Perfect. Every horse owner should calculate blank before summer.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (48:28):

Their hay needs and account for the possibility of drought. Account for waste. Account for the little bit you're going to lose during storage depending on your storage method. So, really try to have a good handle on your hay needs.

 

Katy Starr (48:43):

Excellent. The first thing I would buy before a drought is blank.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (48:48):

A mower. I think, again, a tool in a toolbox. I think every farm should be able to mow their pasture a couple times a year just to even it out, help control weeds, kind of reset that clock on a rotational grazing system. And it will help the pastures bounce back faster once it starts to rain.

 

Katy Starr (49:08):

Great. Okay. So, brown doesn't always mean blank.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (49:12):

Safe or dead.

 

Katy Starr (49:14):

Perfect.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (49:15):

Especially when it comes to non-structural carbohydrates.

 

Katy Starr (49:18):

Right. Okay. One pasture tool every horse owner should own is blank.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (49:25):

Other than a mower, a drag, and I don't care if it's section of a chain link fence, a wood pallet, something when it, Oh, when it is dry and hot, that is a great time to drag your pastures to disperse the manure. The sunlight can kill the parasites. The sunlight really breaks down those manure clumps quickly. It's a great time to drag.

 

Katy Starr (49:46):

Excellent. Okay. And then one mistake that's hardest to fix later during a drought is blank.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (49:53):

Overgrazing.

 

Katy Starr (49:54):

Mm.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (49:55):

So, let's try not to do that. And overgrazing or just simply grazing too soon after a rainfall.

 

Katy Starr (50:02):

Yep. Awesome. Dr. Martinson, so as we begin to wrap this episode up, what are some of your key takeaways that you would like to leave listeners with about feeding horses and caring for pasture during a drought?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (50:15):

I think really the key takeaway is just knowing that sort of during a drought, it can be a really helpless feeling. But I think that analogy of being offensive and defensive is really great. So, I think, you know, there's not much we can do when the water turns off, especially if you don't have irrigation. So, just following those best management practices of avoiding overgrazing. And we do that by rotationally grazing, allowing the pasture to rest, controlling weeds with mowing or overseeding or even a herbicide. And then dragging are just really great ways to have your pasture in the best shape it can be to help withstand the drought and recover as quickly as possible.

 

Katy Starr (50:58):

Great. And then how can our listeners stay connected with you after this episode?

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (51:04):

Well, thank you. This is the shameless plug part, right? Yes. So, we do have a great website. We have hundreds of articles. And because my research program has focused on pastures and hay, it's a pretty robust pasture section. Now it is for the upper Midwest, but there's little nuggets people can glean from all over. We also have active social media with a Facebook and a YouTube channel. And we do have a quarterly newsletter that people can sign up for. It's free. You'll get sent an email once a quarter with a newsletter. The newsletter includes things like this podcast we'll put in there, right? So, podcasts, infographics that we put on social media, those tend to be popular. So, those are really the easiest ways and the freest and at your own discretion that you can stay in contact with the University of Minnesota Horse Program.

 

Katy Starr (51:50):

Awesome. Well, and thank you so much. We'll make sure that I'll get all those links. If I can't find them, I'll get them from you so we can add them to the show notes so it's easy for our listeners to find the resources you guys have available. You guys are one of my favorites to kind of keep up with on a personal basis and just like on the professional side for me, I love watching all the stuff that you guys put out. You've done such a great job with educating horse owners and helping us figure out what we can do to take care of our horses and pastures as best as we can. And so, I really appreciate that a lot. And so, and to our listeners, if you have any topic ideas that you would like us to talk about, reach out to us at podcast@standlee.com.

 

Katy Starr (52:30):

We'd love to hear from you. And other than that, Dr. Martinson, thanks so much for joining us today. I loved our conversation and I felt like it was incredibly helpful. So, thank you.

 

Dr. Krishona Martinson (52:40):

Well, thank you. I'm always so pleased and I'm just, I'm just really glad when I see companies investing in horse owner education and outreach, especially with the podcast. I just love podcasts, right? You can listen to them while you're driving or doing chores. So, I always enjoy meeting with you, Katy, anytime.

 

Katy Starr (52:58):

Awesome. We'll catch you later. Thanks for listening to the Beyond the Barn podcast by Standlee Forage. We'd love for you to share our podcast with your favorite people and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform. Until next time, keep your cinch tight and don't forget to turn off the water.