Episode Notes
** We will be taking a mini summer break for the month of July! Episode 119 will release on Tuesday, August 11th. Catch up on past episodes if you haven't had a chance to listen in yet!**
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*Disclaimer – childhood abuse and domestic violence are discussed in this conversation. Support, services and education are linked below – please reach out for help, support, or hope!*
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On this episode of the Beyond the Barn podcast, host Katy Starr and Adrian Brannan aka Buckaroogirl, singer/songwriter and founder of Dear Cowgirl and Make America Cowboy Again, have a deep conversation about her unconventional childhood and some of life’s toughest challenges she’s faced, including:
- How a chance encounter altered the trajectory of her entire life
- The horse behind one of Adrian’s most meaningful songs
- The message she wishes more women could hear before it’s too late
Adrian opens up about the story behind her Dear Cowgirl letters and shares about the person who stepped in when she couldn’t save herself. Katy and Adrian talk about horses, people, and experiences that shaped her life, the lessons she learned while searching for belonging, and why she believes it’s never too late to become the person you are meant to be.
🎧 Listen now on the Beyond the Barn podcast
Have a topic idea or feedback to share? We want to connect with you! Email podcast@standlee.com
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Support, Services and Education for Violence and Abuse:
RAINN - offers hope, courage, and community to everyone impacted by sexual violence.
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Connect with Adrian on social platforms and her website –
- Instagram – @adrianbbrannan
- TikTok – @adrianbbrannan
- Facebook – @AdrianBuckaroogirl
- YouTube – @adrianbbrannan
- Website – https://www.buckaroogirl.com/
Images courtesy of Adrian Brannan
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*Views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Standlee Premium Products, LLC.*
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Katy Starr (00:00:00):
Hi, I'm Katy Starr, and you're listening to Beyond the Barn. Join me on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition myths, and sit down with some of the most intriguing experts from across the country. We'll also take you behind the scenes of how premium western quality forage is grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. I'm so glad you're here.
Katy Starr (00:00:26):
Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn. Today's guest is someone who truly embodies the word cowgirl in every sense of it. Adrian Brannan, many of you may know her as Buckaroo Girl. She is a singer, songwriter, author, entrepreneur, and recently a graduate of Georgetown University. But beyond the titles, her story is one of grit, movement, resilience, and a deep love for horses and the western way of life. From ranch broncs to recording albums to building community through her Dear Cowgirl series, Adrian has lived a life that doesn't fit neatly into one box. Adrian, thank you so much for joining us on The Beyond the Barn podcast today.
Adrian Brannan (00:01:11):
Thank you so much for having me. If I ever need a confidence boost, I'm going to come talk to you. Seriously. That was an amazing intro. Thank you, <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:01:19):
Oh, well, you helped with that a lot. You are an amazing person and we are so glad to have you on today.
Adrian Brannan (00:01:24):
I'm so excited that we're finally getting to do this. This is awesome. This is really exciting.
Katy Starr (00:01:29):
Yes. And so, you have quite the childhood full of travel and adventure. Can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up, which I know, there's some variety there, <laugh> your upbringing and background with horses, because we'd love to learn a little bit more about that.
Adrian Brannan (00:01:47):
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first off, thank you so much. I'm really, I'm stoked to be here and like off camera, just getting to chat with you has been so fabulous. This is the kind of like awesome heartfelt open kind of conversation that I think I was just telling you earlier. Like, ugh, the world needs more of this. My heart is happy, this is a blessing for me. I love it. So, I'm weird. I'm super weird whenever people are like, so where did you grow up? I'm like, give me a beat. This is a really good question. Like, where did I grow up? So, I was born in California, Southern California. My mom and my dad met there and my dad had a saddle shop when I was little, little. We ended up moving to Northern Nevada, to Elko County when I was, I believe three, maybe two something, three, something like that.
Adrian Brannan (00:02:35):
I'm going to have to check back on my history. <Laugh>. I'm old enough at this point that I'm like, Hmm, when was that? How old was I? And then we moved overseas when I was four. And we moved to Scotland. We moved to the UK, which was just absolutely amazing. So, it was, it is really funny because there was this like period of time in Northern Nevada where I think like, I have memories of Nevada and you know, my family absolutely loved it there. Like, that was a very defining moment I think for like the family as a whole. But for me, like the majority of my memories kicked off in the UK. So, like, we went from horses, sagebrush, like the ranch to, you know, 500 year old cottages and castles and a land that is just, I cannot overstate enough how wild and beautiful Scotland is.
Adrian Brannan (00:03:22):
Like, I love Scotland. It was just, it was a magical place to be a kid, frankly. It was just, it was incredible. And then we moved back to the States when I was eight, when I was almost nine, and I was just beside myself. I was not okay. I was like, you can't take me away from my home. Like, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing in the world. I tried to run away a bunch of times. In fact, this is the first time that I remember, so like, before I was born, my parents went to an Ian Tyson concert mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I always grew up hearing about this concert that Ian was apparently having a fabulous time at <laugh>. Like I always grew up, but, you know, hearing his music, loving his music. And I'll never forget packing to runaway back to Scotland when I was eight. I was listening to the Claude Dallas song that Ian sings, that I think Tom and him actually wrote that. I think he and Tom Russell actually wrote together. If I'm not, if I'm not totally mistaken, but like, that is one of my first memories of being back in the States is like packing my suitcase with my extra socks, listening to Ian Tyson. Like, I'm going back to Scotland. Like I'm out of here.
Adrian Brannan (00:04:29):
I called the airport like, and I had a taxi that was going to come to our home.
Katy Starr (00:04:33):
Oh my gosh.
Adrian Brannan (00:04:33):
We lived super far out. Like I was like, I had it all. I had it all situated and my mom was like, the heck are you doing girl <laugh>? Like, what? You're not doing that. But I was, I was raised by really, I want to say like very free-spirited. And I don't mean that in like the hippie sense maybe, I was raised by very, very free-spirited people. And my mom and my dad just, they went and they did the things that I think a lot of people think about, but never say yes to. And one of the reasons for that is my mom, I don't think we would've done any of the things in life as a family if my mom hadn't been like, yeah, let's sell everything and move to Scotland and we'll live out of a tent in the summertime and be homeless.
Katy Starr (00:05:16):
That is so bold. But I love it!
Adrian Brannan (00:05:18):
Oh, she's such a cool, she is so cool. And you know, she really, she also like, so horses have always been present in our lives when we were in Scotland. Like I mean, I think she had me as a baby horseback, like not long after I was born. Like she, they always had horses. It was always something like, and because dad was a saddle maker, like they were always, that was always like a part of life before I can remember. Yeah. But when we got to Scotland, like they were present in a very different way. We didn't own horses when we were there, but we got to ride quite a bit. And it's just a very different world over there. But yeah, every memory that I have, and maybe some of this is like photos and recollections from them, but every memory that I have is like of it being very free. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And that sounds so corny to say, but like, I think from the time I was little, like mom and dad allowed horses to be something that were fun for me.
Katy Starr (00:06:13):
That's great.
Adrian Brannan (00:06:13):
It was a great gift. And that changed down the road later on in life. It became like, horses actually became like a difficult thing, which is I think not a, not a typical thing to say as somebody who loves being horseback and who believes and experienced like how healing being around them can be. And I think that's why like later in life, it was kind of shocking when I was like, oh, I'm not okay around horses. Hmm. This is weird. But they've always been like this very present thing in my life. So, it didn't matter whether we were overseas. You know, at some point when, when I was younger we were in Ukraine for quite a time and like, I'll never forget, there's this great picture of my dad looking at a harness job on a cart horse in Ukraine. We were in very, very poor areas and you know, as a saddle maker, like looking at the harness going, how is this thing pulling a cart?
Adrian Brannan (00:07:03):
Like how is this working? <Laugh> So, like very broad spectrum. And I think it's really easy to kind of give a blanket statement and be like, I sing cowboy music and you know, a lot of the time growing up with my career, people would say, you know, I was ranch raised. And I think actually there was one point when I was a teenager where it was like, it was just easier to be like, sure, whatever. Like that's an easy answer. But the truth is, is like, it was a lot more dynamic than that. And my head, I was always like, you know, I wasn't raised on a ranch for my whole life, so I always thought of myself and was viewed as an outsider. So, I think horses were a beautiful way to have freedom outside of ways that I saw friends later in life how they had been raised kind of, they were raised on only ranches and they had skills that I envied so much and they had experience that I envied so much. But I also had kind of the ability to not have it be so serious as a kid a lot of the time. And that was a blessing. Because I think, I think my parents did that consciously. My mom especially. Yeah. That was awesome.
Katy Starr (00:08:03):
That is so cool. Do you have like a standout memory as a kid with horses?
Adrian Brannan (00:08:10):
Yes. I have many. So, I have the coolest, I love the term heart horse, which it sounds I get made fun of constantly for like <laugh> for using that.
Katy Starr (00:08:19):
And it's such a thing. I think especially, I mean when I say it too, also, it's like there's a connection that I think girls, even little girls with the horse that is just, they get something from the horse that they don't get from anybody else. And I think that's where it really pulls it all together.
Adrian Brannan (00:08:34):
And I think there's, you know, we were talking about babies and, and little girls and kids earlier and like there is an honesty to children. There's an honesty and a transparency to kids that I think horses can feel. I think they can, my sister had this horse Fat Albert, his name was Fat Albert. He was super cool <laugh>. And she would let me, she would let me borrow him a lot because Lizzie makes really nice horses. But he could tell if you were somebody that he could mess with, he would mess with you. If you missed in the branding trap, he would let you miss once and then he would buck you off. I know this <laugh>, I know this. He'd be like, no, no, your time is done here. Either get it together or get out.
Katy Starr (00:09:14):
Find me somebody who could do their job.
Adrian Brannan (00:09:17):
Exactly. But if you got a baby and you put a baby on his back, he would like, he would do the thing where he would like sink down and he would just kind of like shlump. And you could feel, you could see he'd, he'd lick his lips and he'd just kind of settle in and you could tell he was like, okay. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Katy Starr (00:09:34):
Those horses are amazing.
Adrian Brannan (00:09:35):
Yeah. They really are. My heart horse Cappy, Cappuccino. Oh my gosh, <laugh>. He was a super cool Skipper bred, just the most put together with spare parts brown horse that a man called Dick Bushman gave to my sister and I, and he was the first horse that, you know, he was the, I miss him.
Adrian Brannan (00:09:58):
He was, he was the first horse that my sister, I think started when we came back to the States and mm-hmm <affirmative>. He ended up being my buddy. He was just such a goof. But there was that weird connection. And I adored him and he adored me and he was like a big dog. And he would come, like, he'd be down however far away and I'd be like, Cappyand I'd whistle to him and he would just come running.
Katy Starr (00:10:21):
Oh, that's so awesome.
Adrian Brannan (00:10:23):
It was super cool. But you could brand off of him. Or there was this like, there was a dichotomy toCappy, so, I was obsessed with the early American fur trade era, pre 1840. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Like when I was 14, I bought a 14 foot Indian lodge with money that I made from puppies, from selling puppies. And I moved into this teepee and was like, okay, like I'm going to have a trap line.
Adrian Brannan (00:10:45):
I moved out, I'm independent. Y'all go do your life. Like, this is great. Not many 14 year olds can say that. <Laugh>, I'm so weird. God bless my parents again. My dad was like, cool, we have another mountain man in the house. And my mom was like, okay, you're going to do your school. And so, I was homeschooled. Yeah. She was super patient and was like, so long as you get your schoolwork done, like I don't care what you do. Like that's awesome. But Cappylike, you know, from somebody who asa kid that was reading People of the First Man and, you know, Warriors in the Mystic Plainsand all of these great journals like Osborne Russell, Journal of a Trapper. Like they all had, you know, their horses were their lifeline. And I was like, well, Cappy has to learn how to haul a travois because this is my home.
Adrian Brannan (00:11:26):
And I was moving my home every, you know, you got to move to better pastures, literally. So, I, you know, first time ever I was like, all right, we're going to hook these teepee poles. I think they were 20 plus feet long. Like, I think honestly like maybe 25 feet long, like really long like lodge poles onto this horse and was like, we're going hook him up to a travois and like, this is going to be her new thing. My mom, my mom to this day says that she looked out the window and there's Cappy that just looks like a helicopter with these poles. But he, he was so patient, like he figured it out and we didn't hurt anything shockingly, like, I have no idea how Imade it out of childhood, like in semi one piece. No idea. But he hauled, he, you could go brand calves on him one day and then he could go haul a travois on him.
Adrian Brannan (00:12:11):
And he was just, he was super cool. Yeah. He was amazing. I wish he was still around. He was just, he had a great long life with us and he took such excellent care of me. Like he was kind of like Bert was with babies. He would be like, if he felt like he could mess with you that day, like if you were in the kind of mood that he could be like a little naughty. He would. And then some days, like he was with me through a really dark period of childhood and like, I swear Cappyknew what was going on in my life that I couldn't talk to anybody about. He felt it and he took care of me. He really did. Mm-Hmm. It sounds corny, but that's, it's like the gift of getting older is being able to be like, I had one of those horses and it was a gift.
Katy Starr (00:12:55):
You know what though? I don't think that's corny at all because when you think about, especially now, how many people use horses as resources mm-hmm <affirmative> for different therapies, equine therapies. There are so many different avenues for that now that it's truly healing. It's beautiful. And so, I just horses are just amazing creatures.
Adrian Brannan (00:13:17):
So, many, like, veterans specific as well, organizations mm-hmm <affirmative>. That are finding that that is, I work with two veterans organizations that while they use different therapeutic, you know, avenues, like watching what's going on in that space with equine therapy, it's changing lives. And it's so beautiful to see how many of these people like, might not have ever been near a horse. And it's just like a complete turnaround for them mentally. Not just of having that connection with something, but to have that purpose and like the care of something, how big of an impact it makes in their life. It's really cool.
Katy Starr (00:13:52):
Oh, it's amazing. I am, so we have, in the past we've had episodes where we worked with an organization that did equine therapy for women who had gone through breast cancer and the healing had trying to heal from the process of that and chemo and radiation and to like, some of the stories that they talk about how like, at first almost being kind of scared of the horse because they are a big creature. Yeah. Like if any of us knew anybody, like they're big creatures, they could do a lot. Right. Yeah. But man, just hearing kind of their stories and experiences from what the horse had done for them to help them just feel like they could heal through that process is just, it's so, so incredible. It really is.
Adrian Brannan (00:14:35):
Animals are an amazing thing. Like, I think, and again, it's such a gift getting older. Like I don't care if I sound silly anymore, but like animals feel things that, and see things that I think sometimes we're even scared to see in ourselves. Yes. And being able to like, like, it sounds goofy, but my dog lefty is kind of like, he's like a mini Cappy, Iswear he's like the reincarnation of that horse. Like he's just the coolest boy dog ever. But like, he knows bad people, he knows good people, he can sense things. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Like, I swear. Yeah. Horses, dogs, like animals can, can feel things.
Katy Starr (00:15:16):
So intuitive.
Adrian Brannan (00:15:16):
Sounds kind of corny, but like, I'll trust an animal any day of the week over <laugh> over a lot of people. Like, I'll watch you.
Katy Starr (00:15:27):
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so you have lived obviously everywhere from Scotland to Nevada and to the back of a truck <laugh> to all of that movement, <laugh>. What would you say, what would you say that, like what role did horses and honestly wilderness play as something that was very steady for you?
Adrian Brannan (00:15:47):
Ooh. So, it's funny, I know I kind of alluded to it earlier, but like horses were always this really just like free wonderful means of giving me a way to, I don't want to say escape, but to be the version of me that was the most free. And again, God bless my mom and dad, like they allowed me no matter where we live, to have a very free childhood. Like, I had, I had mastery over my own life, like in ways that I think few kids get. And that was a gift. Like I could make a lot of mistakes. I could, you know, be in harm's way. I could be in danger and I would figure it out. And that, that was a beautiful gift. I think no matter what, as a kid, horses were a way for me to be able to express the need to be like a little wild and a little free.
Adrian Brannan (00:16:41):
And again, because they didn't have that almost rigidness, like, so my sister Lizzie and I don't want to compare too much, but like, she was a student of horses. She wanted to study how to start colts and make nice horses. And I'm totally transparent about the fact that I just wanted to go fast as a kid. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I just wanted to like, I wanted to go fast. I wanted to have fun. I didn't want to do things a proper way. And again, I wasn't raised in this really rigid, like, structured way of like, you know, we're on a ranch doing this, that, and the other thing. Like I was just kind of wild. And so, my horses were fun for me. A nd for my sister, it was, she loved her horses and she wanted to start colts and she makes such nice horses. But there was definitely like, she wouldn't do the things that I would do because she was thinking about how to make bridle horses. And I was thinking like, I'm going to reimagine the war of, you know, the like we're redoing whatever. Like, I'm barefoot in brain tan on this horse and like, I'm going to go check my trap line and I don't care about anything.
Katy Starr (00:17:48):
I love that dynamic between the two of you. That's just so cool.
Adrian Brannan (00:17:52):
It was really great. But, you know, there was also like, she was very serious when she was younger in a way that I was not. And so, I really rejected a lot of that. I didn't learn how to rope until I was, until we came back to the states. Like, I mean, I was, I was probably 10, like before I started roping, maybe later maybe 11 mm-hmm <affirmative>. Again, I would have to ask my mom and check back in the in the photo albums <laugh>. But like, they were always present in a way that was very comforting. And then when I was, when I was 14, some things happened to me and in the wilderness in areas of the world that I loved. That meant a lot to me. I, you know, I've never been scared of the outdoors. Like, it's so funny. I, the dark has never scared me.
Adrian Brannan (00:18:35):
The mountains have never scared me. Like, like I feel more comfortable in the wilderness than I ever have in a big city or a town. That's just always like, from the time I was little, like, that's just again, like, I like to trap when I was little because of my dad. Like, I've always loved camping and being outside when I was younger, doing all to dupes and going and seeing, you know, how long can I survive, you know, in the wilderness without any provisions. Yeah. That was, that was fun for me as a kid. I don't know if I could do that anymore. But <laugh> now, I now I like camping at the Ritz-Carlton, but, you know, <laugh> <laugh> now, it's a little different. I've lived, I've done that. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to sleep on the ground anymore. But those things were very precious to me.
Adrian Brannan (00:19:15):
And they represented, like all I ever wanted growing up was the wild. All I ever wanted was to not be controlled, to not be tied down, to not be owned in any way. Yeah. And that was a result of a, I think amazing parenting by mom and dad, and b also just that's, that's how I was born. And then these difficult things happened in the places that I loved that represented the wild. To me, that represented a relationship with the world and the outdoors that like, I saw myself existing in my entire life. You know, I wanted to be an old woman in the wilderness. Like that, that was my goal is like, I wanted a life in the outdoors in that space. And it was weird because, and I'm happy to like, just full transparency. I don't like getting into things, you know, too much.
Adrian Brannan (00:20:13):
But I'm always happy to talk to anybody who wants to talk about or have a conversation about childhood abuse or sexual abuse or anything like that, or traumatic events as a child. Like, I'm always happy to like, have that conversation, especially, you know, via email or phone or, or anything. Just putting that out there. Because I would've, there were points of my life where I would've loved to have talked to some people, but I didn't know if it was okay. So, I'm always here to talk if somebody's listening likes to talk. Yeah. And I don't know that I've ever actually shared this. They, horses changed in a way after that for me. They were an escape and Cappywas my escape. Like, it allowed me to not feel my feelings because I came, I came to a place where I didn't know what was going on internally with Adrian.
Adrian Brannan (00:21:02):
My family didn't recognize me. My parents didn't know what was going on with me. I didn't know what was going on with me. I couldn't verbalize it. But I wasn't the Adrian that I've been prior to that experience. And I think that was one of the reasons why I loved, I loved history so much, and I loved disappearing into history, whether that was through books or music or being in the wilderness and imagining myself in different scenarios. You know, that escapism of, of using whatever is available to you. Horses were a way to ensure that I was safely out of reach from the scary things. And if I could run fast enough onCappycould get away from it. And, you know, for in that split second, I wasn't in my brain and my body, it was just me and my buddy. And it was safe there.
Adrian Brannan (00:21:52):
And so, I think that was such a gift. I wish there was a way maybe in heaven, God will give us away to be able to tell our animals the gift that they've given us. Because that was, you know, gosh, what an amazing thing. Like, I don't know how to navigate this right now. And God's like, here, here's a buddy to make it like, at least to help you through it. Yeah. At least to live through it. And that was, and that was such a gift. But, you know, I became, I think I would've become even more isolated after that. There was a period where I think I could have become very, very withdrawn. And I was really blessed because it was exactly in that period that God was like, okay, music is going to come now. Take this forefront in your life and you're, you don't get to disappear.
Adrian Brannan (00:22:42):
And I was actually thinking about this prior to this conversation the other day, because there was a woman in our lives Toni Schutte. She was the wife of the cow boss on the ranch that my dad worked at. She passed recently, but she was just the most amazing woman. And she loved Jesus so deeply. I remember talking to her about her praying over her horses, and I loved that. So, I've always prayed over guitars, horses, like interviews, things like that. I'm like, okay, I have to meditate and pray over this, like, before we go to it. It's, it's a lovely gift that she gave. It's a, it is a comfort. But I was thinking about this and I was like, wow, you know, I think I would've really lost myself in that period of life if God hadn't have brought music along and been like, no, no, you can't disappear.
Adrian Brannan (00:23:27):
Because I was like, I was hell bent on, I probably would've gone down a very destructive path I think if music hadn't have come along at that point. And I don't know what that would've looked like, frankly, at that time, but I don't know what I would've done had that not even been a choice. And music was like, nope, now we're here. So, I was, again, my parents like, you know, gosh dang it, they did not get everything right. They're not perfect. They're imperfect humans in a fallen world. But my gosh, they are so cool. And they did so much right. In so many ways. And I look back on like the music things. My mom, God bless that woman. Like she just, she wanted to support her girls. It's just my sister and I, she wanted to support her girls in living out every single dream that we might have.
Adrian Brannan (00:24:17):
And I don't know if some of that is because, you know, she was married when she was really young. She, my dad got married when she was 19. I think in some ways that was maybe her being able to go, okay, I am, I maybe didn't, I chose this way in life and some things I didn't get to do, but they get to and I am going to support them wholeheartedly and give them that support because I don't know that she had that support. And so, yeah, I think she really, you know, like you and I were talking earlier about like being able to give your girls something beautiful that was, my mom did that. She put me into choir when we moved to the US and for somebody who wore brain tan moccasins and a cowboy hat and didn't like really, you know, I'd been living pretty wild. Like the other kids were like,
Speaker 3 (00:25:02):
Who is this girl <laugh>?
Adrian Brannan (00:25:03):
What is this one? It didn't help. I had a broken, I think it was a broken wrist, and I had like one of those hard casts on mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I will never forget. I think it was my last, my last day at choir, a girl kept flipping my hat, my cowboy hat behind me. And I remember, you know, turning around and explaining to her, oh no, you know, this very impolite to do in my culture. It's, it's very impolite to do, don't touch a hat. And I'll never forget, she smiled and she did it again. So, I put her in a reverse wrist lockdown on the ground and was, you know, I was like, we could solve this. Like, I tried to, and God bless my mom.
Adrian Brannan (00:25:37):
I was like, well, yeah. You know, she didn't understand that culturally that was a big difference. You know, I'm not, I'm not advocating here for physical violence at all.
Adrian Brannan (00:25:45):
It was, it was a hilarious example of my mom being like, well, yeah, that would make, focusing on the singing really difficult, I would imagine, you know, and, and kind of always being willing to try like different things. She's probably going to be so embarrassed that I said that.
Speaker 3 (00:25:58):
I don't think I've ever told anybody that before. It's so bad. I'm old enough now at this point now that I'm like, eh, it's all good, if if that girl is listening, let's reconnect. Hi <laugh>.
Adrian Brannan (00:26:11):
Music did start to be a thing then in a very different way. Like, we played piano from the time that both my sister and I were little. We played mom, you know, really saw to that we played with a piano teacher in, in Scotland. And that was amazing. Mrs. Turner, she was so wonderful. And so, music was just always this thing. And then when those feelings started to be really something that I couldn't express, didn't know how to live through or manage or process, writing, became this just really amazing outlet. And I remember I started keeping a journal when I was little because my dad had a, a journal when he would, when he trapped. And I thought that was so cool. And so, I was like, I'm going to be just like that and I'm going to journal too. Yeah. And so, I would talk about like the conditions when I was trapping and like, you know, this, what the weather was like and all that. And that quickly moved into talking about, you know, horses. And that turned into talking about feelings. And I have so many of those journals from the time I was little, little and looking back on them, I see how they progress from like, talking about the wilderness and horses and to feelings and like frustration and then working it out and then poetry. And it's so wild to see like those building blocks.
Katy Starr (00:27:24):
Yeah. That's really cool.
Adrian Brannan (00:27:26):
Yeah, it was, it was neat to kind of look back and see how horses and music always have been this intertwining thing. But it was funny because music really did happen accidentally. I was singing opera <laugh> As a kid, <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:27:39):
And I find that fascinating that that's how you kind of got your start was opera and then transitioning into like the cowboy type music. I was like, that is a little different.
Adrian Brannan (00:27:48):
It was an accident. It was like me, It's very weird. I am very weird. I, again, my mom is amazing and like always had us listening to classical music. I loved Italian arias. I loved listening to CeceliaBartoli and you know, Aida and Carmen. Like, I loved the stories that are in opera. It was just, ugh, it was fabulous. And then I don't even know how it happened exactly. I think it was because my, my cousin knew how to play the guitar. I don't remember how exactly it happened, but like, I ended up learning a couple of chords, I think watching him and singing with him because I didn't know how to play. He knew how to play and like just basically hanging out at home. Yeah. And then I told my mom that I wanted guitar lessons and she was like, well, you know, you're supposed to have these calluses on the end of your fingers.
Adrian Brannan (00:28:38):
I know this. When you have those, I'll get you lessons. And I was like, okay, cool. So, like, and I'm an extremist, I am like, I don't do anything halfway. I am like, oh, okay, <laugh>. Like that makes sense. So, I locked myself in my room for two days and when I came out I had calluses and I walked up to my mom and I was like, see, let's, let's do lessons <laugh>. I didn't actually get lessons. Then I ended up writing a couple of songs because we had been back and forth to Nevada at that point. Lizzie, my sister was braiding raw hide horse gear. And she was showing at the Monterey Cowboy Poetry Festival. And this was like back, I don't like, I'm sure you remember this, but like back in the day, you know, Elko has always been the cowboy poetry gathering.
Adrian Brannan (00:29:21):
Like yeah, the granddaddy, like that's always a thing. But back in the early two thousands, mid two thousands, like the poetry circuit was a thing. People like you had these gatherings that you played and like you could make a living literally just playing poetry gatherings. Like that was a huge thing. And Monterey was really big at that time. And Lizzie got in to show her horse gear and we were so proud. And like of course as a family, this poor girl, she's like, in high school we all went, you couldn't just go and show your horse gear by yourself. And I ended up singing on the open mic and it was one of those very weird Adrian things where these random people heard me sing and were like, I'll never forget this man walked up to me. And he was just the happiest most, he had like this light, like, it sounds so corny, but he had just like this presence about him where you were like, this is a good human mm-hmm <affirmative>. And this beautiful, beautiful woman who ended up being his wife with him. And I was just like, he walked up and was like, hi, what do you want to do in life? And I was like, <laugh> what? He was like, what do you want to do in life? And was like, I want to be a trapper or an opera singer or a mountain man. And he was like, cool.
Adrian Brannan (00:30:38):
I was like, I don't know, like who is this guy? Like my parents told me not to talk to strangers and they were like, we think, you know, I sang two songs that I wrote as a little girl on two chords on the guitar. And it was so bad looking back on it like, oh my gosh, Katy, it was so bad. It was so bad.
Katy Starr (00:30:55):
You have to start somewhere though.
Adrian Brannan (00:30:58):
And they were like, we think that you have a future as a musician and we want to invest in your career and we want to help you make a record. And I was like, go talk to my parents, like, you have to talk to them. And, and those people ended up being, I mean, today they, they're still what I consider my second mom and dad, Mike and Liz Vanderhoof. They're the best humans on earth. And they've been a constant in my life through the ups, the downs, the everything. They were really the reason that I ever had the opportunity to, to do music in any capacity in any real way because I would've had no idea how to do it. I never even would've thought about it. Yeah. It was them. And, and Dave Stamey who pulled me out into a hallway and was like, sing, I need to hear this. And I was like what do we do <laugh>
Katy Starr (00:31:44):
On the spot.
Adrian Brannan (00:31:45):
He totally did. I have Dave and the Vanderhoofs to thank for that.
Katy Starr (00:31:49):
Such a cool story though.
Adrian Brannan (00:31:51):
Very weird
Katy Starr (00:31:52):
<Laugh> just kind of a happenstance kind of a thing. Like that's just really awesome.
Adrian Brannan (00:31:57):
It was one of those ways that I think, you know, looking back, you never know where life is going to take you. We don't know what God's plans are for our life, but you look back and I just go, my gosh, if that one thing hadn't happened,
Katy Starr (00:32:08):
The whole trajectory of your life could have changed. Oh, that's crazy.
Adrian Brannan (00:32:11):
If the world had been doing something different and some people were 20 minutes late to an open mic session, my entire life could have been different. And I, that's such a gift is to realize, you know, I'm such a small little thing in the grand scheme of the universe in the world, and like how amazing that God deemed it, you know, important enough to make sure that that 20 minutes was mine and that I got that opportunity. Yeah. It was such a gift.
Katy Starr (00:32:38):
That is really cool. And you, and you started, you started your first album when you were like 14. One thing that I wanted to ask you about though was of all of the songs you've written, because you have multiple albums under your belt now, and I know that you're kind of working hard now. And so, like of all of the songs that you've written thus far, which one would you say in your mind probably has the strongest horse story behind it? And kind of tell us the tale about it, share it with our listeners.
Adrian Brannan (00:33:07):
Ooh, probably, I think that one's actually easy. Probably My Old Bay Friend. Mm. That was a song about Cappy, honestly. Just watching the people that I admired in the cowboy world and beyond with their horses and that connection, you know, that we talked about earlier. And experiencing that with Cappyand, and kind of the life arc. You know, we go through this life and these horses unknowingly are knowingly experience all of our highs and our lows and our joys and our pains and our sorrows right alongside of us. You know, and the song kind of talks about this cowboy when he was younger, meeting the woman that would one day be his wife and how that horse took care of her. And you know, then he's still there when she's gone and kind of watching how they are the thread that weave through our lives, whether we recognize it at the time or when we say goodbye to them. I think I owe a lot to horses for having loved me through the really hard stuff. And that was kind of like an ode to Cappybeing like, thank you for being my buddy <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:34:08):
Oh, I love that song. Yeah. That's such a good one.
Adrian Brannan (00:34:10):
Thank you.
Adrian Brannan (00:34:11):
It's, it's weird to look back on and be like, oh my gosh, lots of songs about horses and cowboys and cattle.
Katy Starr (00:34:18):
Have to choose, just choose one <laugh>.
Adrian Brannan (00:34:21):
I know, I know. It's weird to look back on it.
Katy Starr (00:34:23):
But you know what, I think that's also the most amazing thing about what you do in your artistry though, because, and actually thinking about it now, when I said earlier about going from opera to cowboy music, there's actually a lot of similarities there with the storytelling aspect of it because, I don't know, probably two truer genres that actually mm-hmm <affirmative> have a way of storytelling the way that they do. And so, it was just probably such a natural progression for you.
Adrian Brannan (00:34:50):
I think it's one of the things that I love to this day about cowboy music is that it is, you know, people go, is it different than country music? And to me it is. And it's this very honest, gritty storytelling method that hearkens back, God, I sound so old, but like, it hearkens back to it <laugh> like an a an older, simpler time of passing things on in a different way. And I love that. I love seeing younger people continuing it. That just makes my heart so happy. Like, yes, continue to tell these stories. Keep passing it on. Don't let it be forgotten. Don't let these people in these places be forgotten. That's a, that's a gift.
Katy Starr (00:35:27):
Yeah. It's almost like a better I don't know if I want to say better version, slightly different, but like of an audio book. But of like a short tale kind thing.
Adrian Brannan (00:35:35):
Yes, we're just being cavemen. We're just writing our stories down and communicating to each other.
Katy Starr (00:35:41):
In the most beautiful way.
Adrian Brannan (00:35:43):
Yeah. It's such a gift. God didn't have to give us a world with colors or music, and yet he did. And I'm like, oh, we get to, we get to make more of that every day. Amazing <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:35:52):
That's so, so good. So, another part of you <laugh>, you have so many facets to your life and who you are.
Adrian Brannan (00:36:00):
You're so sweet. I'm so weird. <Laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:36:03):
I admire it honestly, Adrian, because you're just such a cool person to me. <Laugh>. I know you say weird, but I'm like, I think it's, to me that's cool.
Adrian Brannan (00:36:12):
You're lovely. Thank you.
Adrian Brannan (00:36:13):
When you were a teenager though, you started riding ranch broncs and competing against men, which I found to be so compelling, but how did you even get started with this? Because that's just such a, not something that you would normally see women doing. It's not something that, you know, most people would kind of accept as like, what's going on? But it's awesome.
Adrian Brannan (00:36:34):
Well, thank you. I would say first and foremost, I'm an idiot. <Laugh>
Adrian Brannan (00:36:39):
Honestly, like, and I don't know how well I rode, I'm like, like if I'm being totally honest, if I had a daughter and she asked me like about that, I'd be like, no, no, absolutely not. And frankly, anytime young women, which now it's a very different world, I think, again, I'm going to kind of date myself and sound so old right now, but like now, I think it's, I'm not like involved in that world and I don't really follow it. But I know that there's, I think women bronc riding again. Which is a thing. And at the time the guys were just very sweet to me and let me come get in the way. So, do you know, Teresa Jordan's book, Cowgirls? It's a black and white book and I think it's a, it's a Willie Matthews picture on the front of it, I think.
Adrian Brannan (00:37:21):
My sister had a copy of this book, and from the time I was little, it was just chockablock full of black and white photos of these amazing women from the 18 hundreds, like Prairie Rose Henderson and Fannie Steele and all these incredible female bronc riders and trick riders and you know, gals that wrote at Pendleton and mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, and beyond and ranch women. And it interviewed some like more recent like modern cowgirls who were bull riders and bronc riders. And I think it was like JonnieJonckowski, I want to say. Like just, and Tad Lucas, all these amazing, just beautiful tough women. And I read that and was like, they are so cool. We should go do this. Like, and <laugh> it sounds like a good challenge. Like and again, like, I always like things that are like, I like jumping off of mountains and jumping out of planes and, you know, I like going fast and I like things that go fast.
Adrian Brannan (00:38:17):
I like things that like make you feel alive. That I just thought it would be really fun. And it felt like something that was, you know, these women in history did it and they did it while looking so feminine and so girly. And I just love that there was, again, that balance of being a woman and still doing this thing. And I think, I will say, looking back on it, those guys were so kind to me. I had literally no idea what I was doing. And there was a handful of them that were like, let us help you. Like I mean, I showed up with my rigand no concept of what to do and everybody was like, we're just going to, you know, they showed me how to measure my reign and they told me what to do and they were, they were just so lovely.
Adrian Brannan (00:38:59):
And I had a ball and I didn't cover my first horse and I had an absolute blast. And my parents were super cool about the first one I will never forget. They were super cool about the first one. And they were like, so it's a one and done thing. And I was like, yeah, no, it's not a and done thing <laugh>. And I ended up, oh, again, I'm not condoning this at all. Don't do this. This is an example of what not to do. I ended up borrowing without asking the ranch truck at that period of life and going to the second bronc riding. And I, and I think I was still 17 and I forged my mom's signature on the release waiver <laugh>. And yeah, don't, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Kids don't do that <laugh>. But I really wanted to ride bucking horses and it was really fun.
Adrian Brannan (00:39:45):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And that was also like, I think that was a period of life as well where there was a lot of pain and a lot of challenges. And that was, you know, that was in a time where I would now, and I think a lot of women might not like me for saying this because it's hard. I believe different things than I did at that time. And while I wouldn't change those experiences for the world and I loved it, I might not do it the same way if I could go back and do it over again. Because I view myself as a woman in a very different way now than I, than I did then. And I think at that point I thought of myself as just being a smaller man. I was like, I have a lot to prove. And I thought the harder that I tried and the more I pushed and the grittier I was and the tougher I was and the dirtier I was and the, you know, the, this, that and the other thing, like, like I could prove that I was worth loving, that I was worth accepting.
Adrian Brannan (00:40:41):
I thought I could prove to the people who grew up on ranches that even though I didn't grow up on a family ranch next to them, that I too could be cool and I wanted to be accepted so badly. And I think part of me took the hard things that were happening at that time and put all of that pain into something that was able to be gritty and painful and really fun. Really fun. But also a really different world than like say what I would want my girls to be in. And I think it was a beautiful lesson of not proving your worth. I, again, I look back on it and I don't regret anything. It was so much fun and it was such a beautiful gift in so many ways. But I think it was also a really beautiful lesson of being able to say, you know, as women, we're not just smaller men and you don't have to prove anything in this life and it's, it's okay to just allow yourself to be who and what you are and to be loved and accepted or not for who and what you are.
Adrian Brannan (00:41:45):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And to not try and, and prove anything. I think that was one of those seasons of life where I was out to prove something, you know, to the best of my ability and oh my lanta made for some good stories and good songs.
Katy Starr (00:41:57):
Oh yeah.
Adrian Brannan (00:41:58):
So, my favorite songs came out of that period and it was, it was a lot of fun in a lot of ways. But yeah, it is funny, again, looking back, you know, a decade ago I might have answered really differently because I think as we get older or just as we learn more about the world and ourselves and we're kind of willing to be more transparent and honest with ourselves and those around us, we realize, you know, hmm, did I do that for this reason? Or did I do it for this? And what did that teach me? No, I wouldn't change it. But I might think about it differently now. <Laugh>
Katy Starr (00:42:27):
Growing older and having those experiences and having that time to reflect.
Adrian Brannan (00:42:31):
Such a gift.
Katy Starr (00:42:32):
I think really. Yeah. Is very impactful.
Adrian Brannan (00:42:35):
It's, and I think it's a really beautiful thing, you know, having the space to be able to think about those things. I lived my body and my brain lived for so many years in fight or flight, frankly just 110 miles an hour. I'm so stressed out, you know, I didn't sleep from the time I was 14 on more than a couple hours every night. And that didn't improve with, you know, just like lifestyles of performing and stuff and school and all that. And it's been such a gift, like at this age and in this point of life, being able to reflect. I have slow quiet mornings where I'm able to actually think and I have peace in my life in a very different way. And that's such a gift.
Katy Starr (00:43:17):
That's so amazing.
Adrian Brannan (00:43:18):
It's a gift. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It really is. I'm really grateful for it. I don't know that I really ever imagined it could happen. I think I always thought that at some point there would be that I just, I don't know that I thought I would make it past 25 so.
Katy Starr (00:43:32):
Right. A little bit of that, like wishful thinking but not feel confident in what, which way it would actually land.
Adrian Brannan (00:43:38):
Exactly. So, every day that you wake up and you're like, oh, it's here. It's amazing. <Laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:43:44):
That's so great. Well, and so you've talked a little bit about, you know, the struggles that you had when you were younger, like age 14 ish, that younger teenage years. But unfortunately for you that didn't, that was only kind of the beginning of some, some very rough experiences. And so, you shared that while you were touring full-time at age 19, you did find yourself in an abusive relationship. Looking back now, when did you start to recognize that maybe it wasn't safe or healthy and what helped you to eventually trust that instinct or even feel that you might be able to get out of that moment?
Adrian Brannan (00:44:26):
So, I think, and please forgive me because I'm kind of navigating talking about this.
Katy Starr (00:44:31):
Absolutely.
Adrian Brannan (00:44:31):
I've had the opportunity a couple of times to speak in a more transparent manner on it with some people who feel very safe. And that's such a gift. I apologize for laughing or smiling sometimes when we're talking about things like that. It's actually how I deal with certain things, which is very, I'm a very smiley person anyway. But sometimes I'm like, I want to be like, no, I don't think this is funny. It's just how I process things <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:44:56):
You know what, and I think there are lots of people that when they are in a space like that, that's just how it comes out. And so,
Adrian Brannan (00:45:05):
To anybody who does that <laugh>
Katy Starr (00:45:07):
Don't feel bad. And honestly, we've talked about this, but as much as you are comfortable with sharing, because I know that you've talked about how it's important for you to want to be able to connect with others that might be going through similar experiences and trying to find that balance. So, you know, and all of our listeners should understand that this is, I mean, for you to be on here and to share your story is really, honestly, I think really a gift for us because you're sharing such a vulnerable side and experience to something that you've gone through and whatever you are comfortable with, we want to make sure that this is as safe as a space as it can feel for what it is and knowing that you have the opportunity to, to share your story a little bit.
Adrian Brannan (00:45:52):
Thank you so much. I I really appreciate it. I think I'm still navigating, figuring out how to talk honestly about things while still maintaining a sense of privacy and self and ownership. And I don't know what that looks like, frankly. I think that's just a learning experience like as we go through life, navigating what you share and how you share it. And I know that you open yourself up to certain things when you, when you talk about it. I will say I think the things that happened when I was young was what laid the foundation for what happened later. And I believe that as best I can explain it, my brain, when I was younger, thought of, conceptualized and understood certain dynamics, power dynamics, imbalances, control, gender, certain things were just changed at a really pivotal time when I was little. And I don't know that it, I don't want to say that it messed me up for later on, but I think it made me more susceptible to not valuing, protecting myself by saying things to people who might've been able to help me.
Adrian Brannan (00:47:03):
And that's me trying to put ownership, not take away other people's part in it, but to take ownership of the, you know, there are many reasons why you don't say things or recognize things at different periods of life, but I, my instinct has a name, my instinct is Lizzie, my instinct is my sister. And quite frankly, I think I could have continued for years in a place of pain and hurt and really terrible, terrible things happening if I hadn't have had a sister who was willing for me to hate her in order to protect me. Which is why, you know, my sister is my best friend. And we were talking about it a little bit earlier. I wasn't able to love myself enough to get out. I wasn't, I also, I think when you're in it sometimes your brain is just so focused on making the next day <laugh>, if that makes sense.
Adrian Brannan (00:48:01):
Or the next moment, I don't know that I ever was able to step back and realize in a real way what was happening outside of just pure panic and survival. And sometimes that looked on the outside, like somebody who was really capable and had it all together and probably appeared totally fine in a lot of ways to the people who knew and loved me, not the case. <Laugh>. Yeah. I think because simultaneously I was showing up for work and had, from the time that I was younger, there was a, a weird need and I don't know how to explain it, but there was a weird need in my brain to prove to myself and push through that I didn't know what was going on internally, but boy, I was going to show up and I was going to, you know, do that performance and I wasn't going to communicate or tell anybody that like, you know, I didn't sleep or that, you know, my first show back from a really difficult time, my sister went with me because I started to panic about the idea of being around men in a, in a closed space where the show was.
Adrian Brannan (00:49:11):
And it was a really weird breakdown. And I'll never forget, you know, in the process of you hurting, I think sometimes you hurt those closest to you and my dad, who was so sweet, who has shown up for me more times than I can count in a very physical way at shows to ensure that I felt safe was like, I will take you to the show. And I was like, I love you. I can't be around you. And that was so hard. And I didn't mean it in a way of I can't be around you because you don't make things better. It was just, I couldn't be around a guy in that way, which was weird because I look at what I was doing on, on other things and I was forcing myself to be around just those kinds of people as almost like, I'm going to flag myself out.
Adrian Brannan (00:49:54):
Like I'm going to make it hurt so much that I'm going to get over it. That was like, the plan is I'm either not going to live through it or it's going to hurt so much that it's going to be totally fine. And, and at the end of the day, I didn't, I didn't choose to leave, my sister, God really just gave me the best gift in the world. He gave me somebody who loved me more than I was able to love myself at the time. She locked me in a moving truck <laugh> and at 70 miles an hour on the way to a roping, picked up the phone and was like, you're done. You're not going back and I love you and you can hate me. And I was like, this is so not cool. But also thank God, like, thank God somebody did something because I couldn't do it.
Adrian Brannan (00:50:38):
I couldn't do it. The fallout of that was almost harder than the, the idea of leaving, of getting out the fallout because of just your life changes, your brain changes, your body changes, the physical impact of abuse and in some cases torture can sometimes be, you don't recognize parts of yourself. And I think that's weird. There are certain things that I have experienced, again, me with my I statements. I was joking about this earlier. I don't know about others. I've had conversations with some, both men and women who have lived through some similar experiences and it was situations where I was able to ask them, you know, like, I experienced this, did you also feel this feeling of, do you recognize your body? Because, you know, I don't sing pop music. I'm not on a stage in a sequin body suit. I'm pretty buttoned up.
Adrian Brannan (00:51:37):
Like I sang at, I sing in Vegas, with a button up shirt button to the top button. Like I'm pretty buttoned up most of the time. Like not recognizing your own body for me was really weird in certain ways because I never could get away from what happened. There was this like reminder always of things that I struggled with for a really long time. But I think if I'm totally honest with myself, I don't think I ever would've been able to leave. I don't think I would've. And I think that's why God sent me Lizzie. I think Lizzie is the only reason I got out and I think Lizzie's the only reason why I stuck around in the years that followed, frankly because the years that followed were really almost harder in some ways because I had to be honest and you know, it's so funny I didn't think of myself, I still don't, I don't think of myself in maybe terms that I might have used even a decade ago.
Adrian Brannan (00:52:39):
But I look at certain young women now and certain girls now that I know in different communities and I go, I don't know what's going on in her life. But sometimes I see pieces of me at that age in people and I will think, okay, I don't want to open myself up to certain things. But I would've really loved for somebody to have said, Hey, you don't seem okay <laugh>, I'm willing for you to hate me to maybe open up this conversation and I don't, you know, maybe they're, maybe they're not ready for that. Maybe I don't think I was ready for it in many ways then, but it would've been so lovely to have known that, that maybe voice was there.
Katy Starr (00:53:21):
Or even like plant a seed for you a little bit.
Adrian Brannan (00:53:22):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm so great. God put so many amazing people and amazing women, especially in my life and after, so many amazing men. And I think that's something that there's not a conversation around enough. I think there's a real danger in the outset of experiencing certain things that will allow you to put blame on and vilify an entire group. And that was something that I think I could have done very easily. I could have hated men. I really could have just frankly <laugh>. And I have so many incredible, incredible, strong, kind, loving, safe protective men in my life who have shown me that love and safety and connection and family and honesty is, is a gift. And that they are not an evil thing. That they are, you know, a positive wonderful different than me gift and that I can lean on them.
Adrian Brannan (00:54:33):
You know, I talked about Mike Vanderhoof earlier. That man is my second dad and his wife Liz is my second mom. And similar to the love and the openness that they always gave me through the really bad times, Mike showed me the example of what a really kind honest man looks like. He gave me an example that there was, by God, there is a good human out there that is kind and loving and imperfect and is a really great example. So, I think like at this point it's a, it's a gift to look back and be able to say, I would've preferred to have not experienced that if I'm, if I'm totally honest. I would've loved to have had a very different childhood as I feel in many ways it was cut short. I would've preferred to have had different experiences as a young woman.
Adrian Brannan (00:55:29):
But those really hard things are also the things that have allowed me to hopefully make maybe a little bit of a different impact on certain things in this world. I think if there's any small part of goodness that comes out of that for other people, then that is a great thing. And I don't know that it explains it, but on like the hard days, because we still have hard days. I think it's a beautiful reminder that there is sometimes a lot of joy and purpose to be found in the pain. The pain you feel is the medicine that you get to put out into the world. And that's, that's a gift.
Katy Starr (00:56:07):
Speaking of joy. Because you do present yourself as very joyful. And I was listening to another interview that you did and I had to write this down because it really impacted me so much in what you said and you were asked about, you know, sometimes people will ask you, how are you happy all the time?
Adrian Brannan (00:56:27):
Oh, I'm not.
Katy Starr (00:56:27):
And you had said you're not happy all the time. But you're joyful every day. Joy and happiness are very different and you wake up every day just grateful to be alive. And like, gosh that hit me so hard when you said that. And I was like, I don't know how often we do think about the differences between joy and happiness because some of the things that you've lived through and experienced in your life, there is no reason why you should be happy with the things that you've experienced. But the way that you have grown and learned through all of this is to be joyful and grateful for every day. And ugh, that was just so impactful to me.
Adrian Brannan (00:57:14):
Thank you. I've used that answer a lot. <Laugh>, which I think is kind of an out,
Katy Starr (00:57:18):
But It's so good. It's so good though.
Adrian Brannan (00:57:20):
I think it explains, you know, I've had this conversation, I did a training at a rape crisis center years ago, long before I was ready to actually be involved in kind of that space and to be able to like have certain conversations. Not that I'm so great at it now, but I'm, I'm navigating it in a different way. And I ended up talking during that period with a woman who was like in a space that I had, I had been in before, which is that, you know, there is no hope. And I don't think we get to tell people, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel, it gets better. There are some days, like if there is somebody listening right now who is in the midst of it, like just know that I am a very smiley, happy person and I love the color pink.
Adrian Brannan (00:58:02):
And there are some days that I can't get out of bed. I am a very happy, loved, supported, safe person. And there are some days that I can't get out of bed because boy, anniversaries are hard. Boy, there are certain things that come up in the modern world that will just knock a girl down. But those are hard days. They're not life. And we get to reject that. And I hate to say it, but there was a point that I realized like, I'm going to become really not okay and I'm going to choose that nothing's ever going to be okay again. Or I can reject it and say it doesn't take away from the hardness, the hard things, but it can be a hard day, not a hard life. And I can maybe not be happy that day, but I can still have joy. And that is a gift because even on the days that maybe I don't feel happy, initially, I do have a lot of joy and that is a, a promise that I can make to men or women who are going through that feeling.
Adrian Brannan (00:59:05):
And not all days are going to be good, but there is joy waiting at the other side of the really hard work. And it is hard work. Nothing in this life is easy, I think, and nothing comes easily. But if you're willing to put in the work on the other side of that, I think there is a lot of joy to be found and a lot of amazing relationships that you might not have experienced otherwise. My relationship with my family is such a gift to me. But that's because you know, collectively and individually we were willing to put in the hard work, I think to get, to love each other for how we needed to be loved. And my, my sister is the greatest example of love. I know she was willing for me to hate her and not have a relationship with her in order for me to be safe. And that's something I can't ever, you can't pay back love like that. You can just accept it and live your life with a lot of joy. Yeah. <laugh>.
Katy Starr (00:59:58):
And I think that also for anybody else listening for those that aren't experiencing something like this, which what if we have someone in our life that like we could be a Lizzie to, you know what I mean?
Adrian Brannan (01:00:11):
Yeah.
Katy Starr (01:00:12):
Just to be able to, to be there for those that we do care about in our lives and knowing that sometimes that might be what they need.
Adrian Brannan (01:00:22):
Sometimes it's just being there, sometimes it's not the, you know, I'm hardheaded. It was just the right time. Just the right situation and scenario. That girl gauged it perfectly. And I think that was, because she's, she's got so much feel with her colts. She knew just when was the right time. But you know, if it had been in another time, that approach wouldn't have worked. And I think, you know, being willing to love your people if you're watching somebody experience or go through that kind of life event, it takes a lot of forgiveness. It takes a lot of forgiveness I think for them every day to wake up and live through things. But I think it also takes a lot of forgiveness from the people in your life because you're living through being a human treated inhumanely. We live in a very civilized world.
Adrian Brannan (01:01:11):
Violence and the things that go along with violence because violence isn't like it is in the movies. Pain isn't like it is in the movies. Trauma isn't to my experience, really similar to what it is in the movies. And I think it takes a great deal of forgiveness and love and honesty, radical honesty. Talk to me about what's going on. We'll figure out a way to get through it. I am just a listening ear. I don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything. You know, action is sometimes the most terrifying solution in the world to a person who's experiencing that sort of thing. Being willing to be like, you can tell me what it is and nothing has to happen. Also, presenting options like, you know, I talked about a rape crisis center earlier. I have used resources from crisis centers around the country with just the most amazing people. <Laugh>, I can never advocate for them enough. They are the most non-judgmental, loving, incredible resource out there. And if you want to call and talk to somebody who will never tell you need to do x, y, and z, RAIN is an amazing resource. Just RAIN. You can call a twenty four seven hotline and there will be a person on the other end of that line that will just listen and understand and love you. That's so good. There's a lot of love out there for you if you let them. Love you <laugh>.
Katy Starr (01:02:34):
Hmm. I'm glad you brought that up because that was one thing that I wanted to be able to share with listeners and we'll make sure that we put those in the show notes too of some resources. If there's anything that you need to be able to reach out and feel safe, we’ll make sure that that's accessible in our show notes.
Adrian Brannan (01:02:51):
Thank you. So, I also know that this is weird and I'm sorry I am just weird, but this is new. I've talked about these things with other people in different formats. I think this is kind of a new version of me talking about these things in a different way and navigating what that's like. Thank you so much for being willing to have these conversations because it's a very brave thing to have these kinds of talks and it takes very brave people to open up shows and professional spaces and communal spaces and spaces within the community to have these conversations. Like, and I think it's really important and I don't know how to do it perfectly, but I think you are doing just a beautiful job and I really appreciate it. It's lovely. It's very, it gives me a lot of hope for our generation and the community and women and men as a whole that they're not alone. Thank you.
Katy Starr (01:03:47):
Well I'm so grateful for you being willing to come on and share something that is such a personal side of you. And I know is not easy to talk about, but I know that there are others that probably are walking in your footsteps. And I think the only way that we can maybe create a greater support system is by being willing to, to talk about some of these things. And when I think about, you know, the western world, I know you've talked about this a little bit before, but like mm-hmm <affirmative>. I think we are taught to be tough and to push through it. Like that's just kind of the nature of our culture a little bit, almost to a fault at times. And so, I think it's also important for us, you know, being in a place, a community where, you know, we feed animals and take care of livestock. Like this is all encompassing in what it means to be a community and supporting one another and being there for one another. And making sure that those people know that they are not alone. That's, I think the biggest thing is like, we're here for you in any capacity and way that we can be and that what you want. But knowing that there are those that are willing to be here for you and whatever you need.
Adrian Brannan (01:05:11):
And I think all it takes is one voice. You know, the first time I talked about it in this, a woman named Katie Frank at Western Horseman magazine asked me some questions and published an article that made a lot of people really angry, made a lot of people feel seen. Well some of the letters I got afterwards were really positive and some of them were, this is very inappropriate for you to be talking about and you're giving the cowboy world a bad name. Which I didn't intend on, but I think you're, I think you're right. It does just take one person though to say the things for another person to feel safe and saying, and that's a beautiful gift. I love seeing this community become more open about those things. Because if we're totally honest about it too, that's not the only thing. Yeah. There are addiction issues. There are so many things that don't fit the narrative. I think it's beautiful to see people willing to have conversations about this and it being more acceptable to have conversations around it that gives me hope for our future, for our babies, for our kids, for the young people. Maybe they'll have it hard in other ways, but maybe they won't have to experience the same things because people will have had that conversation with them.
Katy Starr (01:06:28):
Yeah. I totally agree. And thank you Adrian. I just, it's great for you to be so open and kind of one of the things that you had kind of shared a little bit about going through this experience and then the time after, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Because that in and of itself was also very much trialing for you.
Adrian Brannan (01:06:50):
The cure was, was almost worse sometimes <laugh>.
Katy Starr (01:06:58):
Yeah, yeah. Well and I think you probably don't know until you go through it too and trying to figure out what's going to work for you. But something that you did do is you, you did leave thanks to Lizzie for being there for you, but then you essentially kind of built like a tiny home on the back of your truck <laugh>. And so that's a whole nother experience. So, how did that decision of doing that, how did that change your relationship with yourself?
Adrian Brannan (01:07:27):
Oh, I think that was like one of the most life altering experiences ever. And I will say it is not as romantic as maybe even sometimes I have the ability of painting it. But it was the best experience in the world. I would not, I would not trade that period of life or anything. There was a lot going on behind the scenes, you know, being transparent like within my family, within my life, within the period of life that I was in. And there was this gift that my mother gave me unknowingly of being willing to do the weird, crazy thing. You know, you and I had a, a little bit of a conversation about this earlier, but school was a really difficult thing for me in that period afterwards, being locked in small rooms with people who scare you is, you know, maybe we don't need to flag ourselves out in this way. <Laugh>
Adrian Brannan (01:08:18):
That was really difficult. Yeah. And there were, there was a solution I desperately wanted to go to school desperately and education was something that meant more to me than, than we have time for. But as a person just that viewed themself in one way and was told that they were worthless, proving to myself that I was worth educating was something that I had to go to school. So, I ended up pursuing my undergrad online completely. It was amazing. I went to American Military University online and I was basically in school with a bunch of folks who were deployed and it was just absolutely incredible because during that period I did, I built a little, a chuckbox and a bed and a book case in the back of my pickup and I left and it was great. And I booked shows and when I would book these shows, the people would do a hotel overnight and I would get a shower and it was amazing.
Adrian Brannan (01:09:18):
And at other times I would stop at truck stops and take showers there. Truckers are some of the greatest people you will meet. Like they are amazing. I I know that's kind of a blanket statement, but my experience with truckers was just so great. Just kind people who were just like so willing to, you know, your truck had problems or something. Because something always happens on the road. Yeah. I met amazing humans who, rubber tramps, you know, people who were foot back. I had experiences that I look back on and I'm like, oh my gosh, if my daughter told me she was, you know, had buried her truck axle deep in a, you know, ancient lake bed and had been digging herself out with a frying pan but was happy, I'd probably be like, oh my lanta are you okay? But you know, those were experiences that I look back on and oh my gosh, it was, it was the best of times. That period I did, you know, I wrote papers from green rooms and that period was also I think self-discovery in the way of not just as an artist and like what I was singing and what I wanted from my music career and what other people wanted from my music career for me.
Adrian Brannan (01:10:24):
But also like I wasn't into it for like maybe the, the scene that I saw a lot of people kind of involved with because I was, I wasn't just singing like cowboy events. I was doing a lot of different kind of venues and places and different people from different cultures and communities. So, I kind of got to see like the whole spectrum of performer and go, do I want what they have in life? Do I want what they have in life? You know, it was really just a period of self discovery at the back of a truck. It was not pretty sometimes, but it was, it was really amazing. I will say I did it out of a, not a four wheel drive pickup. Oh. Because that was what I had. Yeah. If you're going to do that, just take the four by four <laugh>. You never
Katy Starr (01:11:13):
Know wherever you're at. Oh my goodness.
Adrian Brannan (01:11:17):
I took that truck into places I should not have <laugh>. It was, it was a great period of life though. It was, it was what I kind of equate to, you know, my dad lived in the mountains and had a trap line before he and my mom got married. And he always kind of told me that it was like this period of discovery of himself and who he was. And I think that that was what that time was for me. And again, it was just another, maybe just a shadow of the little girl on Cappy. It was just a little bit older girl in a truck just trying to drive as fast as she could to get away from the stuff that scared her. It just took stopping the truck and getting out of it and going, who am I actually to be able to be okay with taking it at an easy pace eventually.
Katy Starr (01:12:02):
Yeah. So, when do you think now in the time that you've lived your life, when you think about the woman that you were trying to find your way back to, because you've mentioned that, how close do you feel to her today with all the beautiful surprises you've experienced since that time in your life?
Adrian Brannan (01:12:22):
I don't think I'm honestly anything like what I imagined I would be at this age. I think every day I am a little bit closer to the little girl before the hard things. Yeah. And that's the greatest gift in the world because again, my life today is safe and full of joy and peace. And I'll never forget, my sister one time years ago, in the midst of really difficult things asked me what my main goal in life was like, what I, what I wanted and what I was trying to build in my life. And I said I wanted peace. And that's as true today as it as it was then. I am so grateful every day that my life does not, it's not built on chaos any longer, whether of my own making or others. It is a life of peace. And I'm really grateful for that because I don't think that we can become who we're supposed to until we slow down enough and have a little bit of peace to consider what that woman looks like and to build her. A very strong woman was built in times of chaos and a very calm woman is deciding what the next chapter looks like in the moments of peace. And I'm really grateful for that. I don't think I would appreciate it in the same way if I hadn't have had the other.
Katy Starr (01:13:44):
Yeah. Oh that's amazing. One of the things that you kind of did through this process, which I know it resonates so well with others in your kind of online community space that you built from this, talk to us a little bit about your Dear Cowgirl series. You started that close to, I think a decade ago,
Adrian Brannan (01:14:06):
2016, Katy 2016.
Katy Starr (01:14:10):
Oh my goodness. Crazy. Talk to us about the Dear Cowgirl series and what it meant for you to start that and why you did.
Adrian Brannan (01:14:18):
So, Dear Cowgirl was an accident. It, this lights me up. This is like one of those things that I'm just so, ugh, I'm so grateful for <laugh> Dear Cowgirl was totally an accident. A young woman who looking back now, oh my gosh, yeah. A decade 2016. She wrote me after the, I believe it was after the Western Horseman article that Katie wrote. Mm, I have lots of fabulous Katys in my life. <Laugh>. And she was navigating just the logistics of, and I think this is one of those things that practically speaking is very difficult within maybe situations where there's animals involved as I know it is when there are children involved, you know, and family involved. The people that we love and the things that we love are a vulnerable spot. And she was basically asking how to get her animals out of this situation and how she should deal with that.
Adrian Brannan (01:15:11):
Just the practical side of things. I had this letter and I thought about it for a few days. It was just like, God, I don't know how to write this girl back. And I, when I wrote her back, I wrote back, dear Cowgirl as the response and we went back and forth. In fact, I still have those letters. I need to dig them up. They're somewhere in my inbox. But we went back and forth and I asked her for permission to post kind of a, a version of that letter online. And she was like, yeah, absolutely. So, I shared it. And the amount of women that I had that responded to that was just wild. It was like, I think it was because it was just very honest. I think it was just like I was trying to talk to a version of me.
Adrian Brannan (01:15:57):
I see different versions of me and every woman that I talk to. You know, there are different iterations of ourself that we look at in others and go, oh, I remember this part. Or Ooh, maybe one day I'll be there. And women reached out and were like, I'm experiencing this too. Or I'm going through that. Or you know, I view myself in this. And that was just beautiful and I just kept writing them. It turned into this thing purely by accident. I kept writing dear cowgirl letters. And finally these ladies were like, please put them into like a notebook or something for us. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. Like that's a good idea. I hadn't really thought about that. And ended up putting 30 poems into a little book. And an incredible woman who I so admire. Mary Osborne, who's a pro women's surfer from Southern California.
Adrian Brannan (01:16:46):
Just the coolest gal you'll ever meet. Just amazing figure in surfing both men and women, but in a very male dominated industry. Like just incredible also. Yeah. Like shout out to Mary. She, you know, she had babies a little bit later in life than a lot of people and is just the picture of doing life her way and finding peace. Hmm. And she navigated a really forward facing career, ended up finding her partner and building a family and a life that reflects peace. And I really admired that. Jackie Hobbs Crawford wrote the introduction to the second book, love Her <laugh>. She's amazing. Again, another strong woman who is this example of peace. Yes. To me that I, that dichotomy of strength and gentleness of motherhood and professionalism and the ability and the want to share that with other women is just something that I so admire.
Adrian Brannan (01:17:50):
They both lent just such a voice of, I don't know, kindness and hope to both of the books. So, yes. And now there's a couple of books. The third one's coming very soon. I don't know why I always do an album and a book at the same time, but I do. It's so weird. <Laugh>. They do I just have to do. Yeah. They all come at the same time for some weird reason. So, the third book is coming soon. We have good online communities upwards of upwards of a hundred thousand people at this point across all spaces. And it's just amazing. We, you know, we have people who've been in those groups for so long that now they are in each other's families in a way that like people have gone to other people's homes for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Mm. People during wildfires when people needed to get animals out have shown up with trucks and trailers.
Katy Starr (01:18:36):
I saw a lot of that. That's so amazing. I love it so much.
Adrian Brannan (01:18:40):
It's, it's beautiful. Like we have, and I don't lead these groups anymore. Like I'll basically pop my head in once in a while and be like, Hey, how y'all doing? Like are we, are we all good? Like they police themselves, they love themselves, they love each other. They are an incredible community that is built on love and connection and honesty. And that's just been such a gift to watch those groups give me so much hope for our world. <Laugh> honestly on the daily with how they love each other. It's beautiful. And dear cowgirl is also soon to be a song, don't tell. Which I'm really excited. Yay. I'm really excited.
Katy Starr (01:19:18):
Yay! Oh my goodness, that's going to be so good.
Adrian Brannan (01:19:20):
I'm excited about that.
Katy Starr (01:19:21):
I love that. I'm not even sure quite when this is going to release, but this episode. But I just saw that you posted about, and I, it was the song that I messaged you about when I first wanted to have you on the podcast. And I was like, by the way, I really love this song. It means a lot to me and with my girls. And so, <laugh> and I saw you posted about it yesterday and I was like, oh my gosh, it's here. <Laugh>
Adrian Brannan (01:19:47):
Father’s Stand In Son is coming! I almost honest. Thank you so much. I have to say like that is, that is I think my favorite song that I have written in a very long time. It's also so funny, like the music that has come out of the peaceful time is very different than the music that came out of the chaos. Different time period, different way of writing, different everything. And that song, I cannot tell you the amount of women who have written me have been like, just from the clips have been like, I'm my father's stand inson too. And I'm like, oh, oh my gosh, I love this. That comes out on the March 6th.
Katy Starr (01:20:21):
I knew you had a pre save for Spotify.
Adrian Brannan (01:20:25):
I'm, I'm tickled about that because it's been so long since I've released new music and I kind of took a side quest and I thought that I was going to be able to like for some reason like put out a lot of music when I was in grad school because I was like, oh I won't be living out of a truck. It'll be so easy. Such an Adrian thing.
Katy Starr (01:20:45):
I remember you talking about that too.
Adrian Brannan (01:20:49):
I was so busy. I was basically like, alright, peace out for three years guys. Bye guys. The return to social media has been wild, I will say after like having been gone like off and on there, but like not really present in the same way. It's a very different space than when I like left. And it's interesting because like I'm not a content creator. I don't like, I am not an influencer, I'm not a content creator. Like I'm just a poet in a pair of boots with a guitar like literally that likes counter-terrorism <laugh> like, like, so coming back out of this space is like, oh am I sharing songs? What am I doing? How do you do this again? Why do I have the ick for like posting like this is weird. It is been, it's been good. Like getting back into it and seeing people again and reconnecting with people and being like, oh, okay, now we're sharing music again. We're sharing Dear cowgirls again, this is fun. I like this.
Katy Starr (01:21:43):
Oh it's so good. I think everybody's excited to have you back. Oh thank you. To be able to share some of your new stuff that you have going.
Adrian Brannan (01:21:50):
Thank you.
Katy Starr (01:21:51):
So, I know that you have a lot but I am curious if you have like maybe one of your favorite Dear cowgirl messages that you've written and why it speaks so strongly to you and means so much to you.
Adrian Brannan (01:22:05):
Oh okay. This is a really good question. I did not actually prepare for this one <laugh>. So, I'm not going to be able to tell you which one it is and I will, I will go back, maybe you could put it in the show notes. I will go back. Okay. Notes. I can put notes. I'll go notes back and find it. I'll go get the book. I have this, I have to do this too. Like with the albums I'll be like, I don't remember what song number this is. I don't remember what this, I'm going to go look on an album. <Laugh>.
Adrian Brannan (01:22:28):
There is one Dear cowgirl where it is, I don't need to be your any one thing and the world cries out for you to be ranch, mother, cowgirl, student, woman, this, that, you know, all these different labels. Every label that we give ourself is a prison. And I think I go on to say I think this while standing at the foot of a mountain whose name I do not know with my cup of coffee. And I think at the time I was smoking a pipe. So, I love the smell of a pipe.
Katy Starr (01:22:58):
<Laugh>
Adrian Brannan (01:22:59):
<Laugh>. I do. But the idea that we are supposed to be one thing, what a sad thing. There are so many women that exist within each one of us. So, many different avenues, so many different roads that we can take so many beautiful, beautiful lives. I think God gives us endless possibilities. And I think he also gives us the free will to decide which ones we want to pick. And, not which one, which ones I think you are allowed to resist the binding idea that you are supposed to be one thing.
Katy Starr (01:23:36):
I love that.
Adrian Brannan (01:23:37):
It's a funny thing to say but my dad is a great, oh it's, my dad is a great dear cowgirl to me because he went back to school when he was older. He went back and got his PhD when he was older.
Katy Starr (01:23:49):
Yeah, that's why you went to Scotland, right?
Adrian Brannan (01:23:52):
Yep. He's amazing. And he did that because my mom believed in him and was like, yeah, let's sell everything. Pack up our life in four suitcases and moved to a foreign country so that you could go do this thing. And in the same way, you know, I was older when I went to Georgetown and my dad was like, heck yes. And my mom was like, you can always do whatever you set your mind to. There is not one path for you in this life. And even if your path seems like it should be one thing because you've done it for so long, it is never too late. I think that's kind of the ethos of dear cowgirl in a way is that it's never too late to choose you. Whether that means choosing your safety, whether that means choosing a new life, whether that means waking up and just choosing to live. There's always another chance for you to choose yourself, to choose love, to choose joy, to make the world a better place. It doesn't have to be next Monday, it doesn't have to be next week, it doesn't have to be tomorrow. It can be right now. You can decide right this minute that, nope, I'm going to let one of those versions of me inside out. I'm going to let her let her run free.
Katy Starr (01:25:04):
<Laugh>. I really love that. Especially like if I can connect with that in a way is my time into motherhood and how, yeah, that's changed quite a bit about my life and what my life looked like before kids. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and how it is now. And just knowing that there is some ebb and flow to life and you don't have to feel like you identify as only one soul thing. So, that's really beautiful and I really like that.
Adrian Brannan (01:25:30):
I appreciate that though because you know, motherhood isn't something that I've gotten to experience and one of the things that I love from the women in my life is them telling me, you know, I'm not who I was before. I have babies, I'm something different. But it's a beautiful thing. But it's also really hard. But it's also really wonderful. Yes. But it's also really hard and that's a beautiful gift too, is being able to share that with other women and being able, being willing to say, this is hard, this is different. I don't know who I am now. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Because I'm different than I was before. I think we need to hear that from mothers.
Katy Starr (01:26:07):
Absolutely. That's so true. Adrian. So, you've built obviously a pretty large online community around encouragement and resilience. So, what's the maybe most surprising or one of the most surprising messages that you've received from someone that kind of reminded you of why you do want to share so openly about your experiences and all of that?
Adrian Brannan (01:26:32):
Oh, I have, I have a whole folder. I have a whole folder of them. I take screenshots of every single one of them. Good. Oh man. This is the problem with like getting in touch with your feelings. I haven't cried since I was 14 and then like later on in life I got to where like I cried only the good things. I'm such a crier about good things now. All the happy things. I cried at everything. Flowers, babies, puppies, music, pretty dress good books, <laugh>, I cried it all. I have a folder of letters from very brave people who are share, share the good things, they share the hard things. I think the standout one, I actually read it quite a bit, is a email that I got from a woman on the website who was a young mom. She had two young kids who got out of a really dangerous situation and chose her babies.
Adrian Brannan (01:27:24):
She was writing me from a women's shelter. The shelter had dear cowgirl, I try and keep copies of one at least or both and as many shelters as I can so that they're something that's at, you know, available. Just if you show up with nothing, it's something you can scribble in, something you can read something you can be angry about. Rip up if you want. But she had received a copy of, I think it was the first book and she sent me just updates of her life. She took the first step, she got out, she took the next step the next day, which was staying alive for her babies. She didn't go back. She chose a new life and it was really hard and it was really messy and every, you know, kind of periodic update that I would get was just, it was so beautiful. Every next step, just hearing her choose herself and her babies, that was really, that was really beautiful. And she now has an incredible husband and a new baby on the way and a life with a lot of peace. I think those are the most precious is getting to experience the hope and then getting to experience the peace afterwards with them. That's really a gift.
Katy Starr (01:28:41):
That's amazing. I, and encouraging I think especially for someone going through something that seems.. Yes. Yeah.
Adrian Brannan (01:28:49):
Hopeless. Yeah. Because we've all been there, you know, we all go, well that's true for you. Or at least, oh God, there we go again. Me with my I statements, I have experienced that there are periods of your life where you know, you, you look at things and you're like, well that's well and good for you because you had this situation in your life and this was different and you look like this and you did that and this, that and the other thing. And there is hope. There is always hope. And if you don't have any right now, reach out to me or somebody else and will lend you a little bit of ours until you can gather up some of your own. It's something we get to share.
Katy Starr (01:29:25):
Hmm. That's so, so good. Going back to horses, through all of this, horses obviously are pretty incredibly sensitive to what we carry. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> emotionally. And you talked about the importance of them in your life, especially through some of these experiences. Were they ever able to kind of reflect back things to you before you were really ready to see them for yourself?
Adrian Brannan (01:29:49):
Oh that's it. Gosh, you come up with really good questions Katy.
Katy Starr (01:29:54):
<Laugh>.
Adrian Brannan (01:29:56):
<laugh>. Horses were really hard for me for a while. Difficult thing. I know we kind of alluded to it, but really difficult things happened around them and this thing that was once really good and positive and beautiful and my like entire identity was pretty, you know, wrapped up in the fact that I'm a cowboy singer and I'm horseback all the time taking care of cows and, and then they became a trigger <laugh> and yeah, I got scared of being around my horses, that was on me. But like I got scared of being around my horses because they reminded me of things and they reflected my fear back on me. That was a really beautiful gift that they gave me because there's no lying to your horses.
Katy Starr (01:30:39):
That’s so true.
Adrian Brannan (01:30:39):
There isn't, there's no, there's no faking it with it. Like, I mean I guess there is in, in some ways but like not on a real level. Like they felt, you can hide a halter. I have, I have a, I have a friend Devin who like, she does these skits you know of, of horses. She's so great. Oh my gosh. I love Devin. I love her. Yes, she's amazing. But like she does these skits of like hiding your halter behind yourself to go find your eyes. Like I guess on that period, like you know that level you can but fear, pain, the freakouts.
Katy Starr (01:31:10):
Anything emotionally. Yeah.
Adrian Brannan (01:31:12):
Yeah. I couldn't hide that from them for the longest time. And so, I think when I took my first ever polo lesson this fall, which was
Katy Starr (01:31:21):
So, fun, so much
Adrian Brannan (01:31:22):
Fun. Oh my gosh. I just wanted to try something new and different a little fast. But I was wearing a helmet mom, I was wearing a helmet <laugh> and it was really just so fun to be bad at something again, I'm so bad. Like I was like I don't think I remember how toride<laugh>. Like this is so weird. Like also I learned so much that like I hadn't had an opportunity to learn before because I wasn't willing to be bad at something or admit that I didn't know something.
Katy Starr (01:31:49):
That’s hard to do.
Adrian Brannan (01:31:50):
So, good for you though too. It was like, so talk to me about this lead changes thing. Yeah like you know like it sounds so goofy but like I was able to show up as me with this horse who was probably just like, oh great. You know, really another newbie <laugh>. It was such a beautiful experience of like I'm willing to show up with honesty and be bad about something and this horse is taking really good care of me. Prior to that though, like getting to show up with my horses and have them have that sense of calm again and not have it be me showing up and freaking everybody out with my fear. I think that was a really beautiful gift. Like you said, seeing that reflected back. Hmm. I think that's true of a lot of things in the world though. Not blending into what situations you're put into. You know, if you're around chaotic people, there's two chaotic people. You don't have to be the third.
Katy Starr (01:32:44):
Yeah. And what would you say is probably the most important thing that horses have taught you in your life so far?
Adrian Brannan (01:32:52):
Oh, forgiveness. Forgiveness. Abso hardcore. Every horse I've ever been around has forgiven me in one way or another again and again. They continue to, I just love them. They're very forgiving.
Katy Starr (01:33:03):
They are. And who would you say in your life, and I know that you have so many that you have been inspired by, but who would you say in your life has probably been your greatest inspiration?
Adrian Brannan (01:33:16):
Oh, that's my sissy. That's my sister. She in every way, shape or form has inspired me to live, to keep living. I'll also say there is a woman, because we're not little girls anymore. There is a woman Lydia, she has a podcast and she has a, a very thriving online following now I share a common pain with who is an incredibly strong woman who I admire greatly. And she made the choice in her life to choose herself and choose peace as well. And she has beautiful babies and a husband and a beautiful life that she fought for. And sometimes when I was younger, watching somebody who knew the type of pain that I had experienced continue to choose herself. It wasn't inspiring. It was actually really painful to watch because it was like, gosh dang it, she's winning at life. She's doing this thing. How do I do this? She inspired me to keep chasing peace in different forms. She was one of the reasons I moved to Texas actually. I don't know if she knows that she went to school in Texas and, and I really admired her for that. She chose peace. She still inspires me to this day.
Katy Starr (01:34:35):
That's awesome.
Adrian Brannan (01:34:36):
I love watching her be a mom. I love watching her live in peace. I love watching her read books and I love getting to be her friend. Even if it's from a long ways away and we only catch up a few times a year. That's a gift.
Katy Starr (01:34:49):
Yeah, that's such a blessing with the online space to be able to do that.
Adrian Brannan (01:34:52):
It is. You know, technology is such a, funny enough also. Yeah, she also said something, you know, she said something the other day that really hit home to me it was that your online world is only as negative as you make it. It's like that's really interesting. I mean hmm. I get to choose what I see. Okay. Thanks for the reminder. I like that <laugh>.
Katy Starr (01:35:14):
Yeah, that's true.
Adrian Brannan (01:35:16):
I have a lot of amazing, very strong women in my life who are also examples of gentleness and I appreciate that. Because I think we need women who remind us that it's okay to want peace and gentleness and calm and safety.
Katy Starr (01:35:33):
That's really beautiful And I think it's so important to be able to have that support.
Adrian Brannan (01:35:38):
And as a reminder, especially for I think young women. And again with my eye statements will just say I viewed, you know, the more independent self-dependent and gritty I was as a girl and as a young woman, you know, that that made me somehow more, I think I would look back and tell young girls that it's okay to seek safety and ask for help and allow yourselves to be taken care of and protected and loved and to wait for that life gets really good on the other side of doing the hard things. Yeah.
Katy Starr (01:36:12):
That's so good. What would you say is probably, because I know that you have obviously so many people in your life, so many interesting and wise people in your life. What's the best piece of life advice that you have ever gotten from an older cowboy or cowgirl and how has that kind of held up?
Adrian Brannan (01:36:32):
Funny enough? Oh, if you hear that, that is my blue dog coming to say hi. Say hi Lefty <laugh>. This dog deserves his own degree from Georgetown. Because he went to a lot of classes as well. He's a very good boy.
Katy Starr (01:36:44):
That’s awesome.
Adrian Brannan (01:36:45):
He's, he's gone to a lot of shows in a lot of classes. Dale Harwood, the saddle maker from Shelly Idaho. Hmm. Impacted my life in a great way when I was, I think I was 11 or 12 at a saddle making clinic in Oklahoma City at the Western Heritage Museum. Which funny enough, I like now have gone on to have an incredible relationship with and you know, am always at the cowboy going to award shows or you know, going and visiting the museum whenever I pass through town. Yeah. Dale told me to go to school when I was little. He encouraged me to go to school and he, he said that there was always time for the other things in life, but that it was, it was okay to just take a little bit of time and to go to school. And I think it doesn't sound like much but I revered him as a little girl and for somebody that I so respected to think that I was worthy of educating. I think I always kind of had his voice in the back of my mind going, yeah, Dale says it's okay if Mr. Harwood says it's okay <laugh>. I wrote a song about him old Dale, which looking back on it now, I'm like, oh my gosh, as a kid I called him old. That's so embarrassing. Oh my gosh. I guess recently though he got an award and like they played it as his walkup song to get it as award.
Katy Starr (01:38:01):
That's awesome.
Adrian Brannan (01:38:03):
It's just amazing. But I want to go see him soon and just tell him thank you for, he took a lot of time out to talk to an obnoxious little kid that talked too much at a saddle making clinic and tell her she was worth investing in. That was lovely. Outside of that, my dear friend Dick Gibford, he was one of the first people to hold me as a baby. Just an incredible human and incredible cowboy poet. He's always encouraged me to not let them, I don't know who they are, but not let them take the wild out of you. He's done a great job of reminding me to always keep a little bit of the wild no matter what he gives me the honest feedback he does when he gets excited about it. Oh man. Then I know I've hit the nail on the head then I know it's going to if well if Dick Gibford and my mom like it then I have no choice of the matter. It's got to go <laugh> ready? Yeah.
Katy Starr (01:38:58):
Oh that's so great. So, Adrian, if you could leave our listeners with kind of one truth about resilience, healing or starting over, what would it be?
Adrian Brannan (01:39:11):
I think, oh another yet another thing I did not prepare for, but you are worth loving and that sounds really cliche. I think it is easy to lose our own worth in the pursuit of one day being what we hope and imagine the best version of ourselves can be forgetting that we're alive right now today in this moment and we have today. Doesn't matter what period of healing period of life, what part of your journey you're on, you are worth loving in this moment. You are worth taking care of in this moment. You are worth choosing in this moment, not tomorrow, not the week after, not when you're 20 pounds lighter. Not when you're 10 pounds heavier, not when you have bigger fluffier false eyelashes on, not when you're wearing, you know, the latest style of pants. How you perform doesn't reflect the love that you deserve to be shown. You deserve to be loved today and even if you are the only person giving yourself that love, it is worth it. And if you don't feel there yet, then there are other people who are willing to love you in the interim.
Katy Starr (01:40:22):
Thank you Adrian. That's so great. I know that some of the things that we talked about today I know have been a little bit hard, but I appreciate you so much for being there for our listeners and creating some space for us to talk about some of these hard conversations. It's been really good. How can our listeners stay connected with you after this episode? Where can they find you?
Adrian Brannan (01:40:48):
Oh well first off, thank you. Because what I said before really holds like you created the space and the conversation and opened it up and I really appreciate it. I hope I did okay with talking about some of these things. Sometimes I'm like, ah, I go up on rabbit trails and <laugh>. It can be so bad. <Laugh>,
Katy Starr (01:41:06):
I think it was great. I really appreciate and value the conversation that we had today and I know a lot of our listeners will too.
Adrian Brannan (01:41:13):
I do too. And in a way I think it's really a gift selfishly to me as well. It is healing to me as well and I so appreciate it. Yeah, this has been such a gift to me. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Lefty says, thank you too. <Laugh>, Can't see it, but he is here saying thank you. You know the website, very outdated at this moment because it's on my to-do list, again, another thing that I really thought I was going to be able to kind of accomplish during grad school, it was not on the list. <Laugh>
Adrian Brannan (01:41:45):
Buckaroogirl.com is slowly becoming revived and is coming to life again. The blog is there. I post all the dear cowgirl letters up on the, it's kind of a journal at this point and kind of just a stream of consciousness. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Of like thoughts there in the blog buckaroogirl.com. I'm pretty active again on Instagram, which is I think just Adrian B Brannan. And then on Facebook it's just Adrian Brannan as well. Or if you look up Buckaroo Girl anywhere, it'll pop up. I, I'm not sure how long I'm allowed to use Buckaroo girl because, well, quite frankly, I might be getting too old to use it at this point, <laugh>
Adrian Brannan (01:42:24):
But pretty much if you just look up Adrian or Buckaroo girl, I will be there. And this is just, you know, to anybody listening, if you ever want to reach out, talk about anything, I do take a long time to respond, quite frankly, because I prioritize not being online.
Katy Starr (01:42:40):
That's not a bad thing.
Adrian Brannan (01:42:41):
But I will respond eventually. Katy’s like, it took a long time to get an answer out of you. Oh my gosh. <laugh>
Katy Starr (01:42:49):
It was so well worth the wait!
Adrian Brannan (01:42:51):
You're so sweet. Thank you for being patient with me. But if you do, reach out, if you ever want to talk, if you ever need someone to talk to, I am on all those platforms and if you send an email, I will respond. Please do. If you want to have a conversation, if you feel alone, if you don't feel alone and you just want to have a wee chat, I'm always there.
Katy Starr (01:43:11):
I'll be sure to put your website and social handles in our show notes so it's easy for our listeners to find. And to our listeners, I hope you guys enjoyed today's conversation. I hope that if you feel like you're in a situation that you either feel unsafe or you just need some support, I hope that this conversation today brought you a little bit of hope and creates something in you that makes you feel like you can reach out if you need it. And so, we're so happy to have you all listening to us. And Adrian, thank you again for your time, and your energy and your positivity and it's just been so wonderful.
Adrian Brannan (01:43:55):
I can't imagine a better way to spend the afternoon. Thank you so much. I really, I really appreciate you having me on. It's been a real gift. Thank You. <Laugh>.
Katy Starr (01:44:07):
Thank you for listening to The Beyond the Barn podcast by Standlee Forage. We'd love for you to share our podcast with your favorite people, and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform. Until next time, keep your cinch tight, and don't forget to turn off the water.
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