Ep. 111: Not All Fiber Is the Same - Understanding Free Fecal Water Syndrome in Horses Part 1

Episode Notes

On this Part 1 episode of the Beyond the Barn podcast, host Katy Starr chats with Dr. Burt Staniar, Associate Professor of Animal Science at Penn State University, and Dr. Kelly Vineyard about the science behind free fecal water syndrome, including:

• Why two diets with the same fiber content can behave very differently in the horse’s hindgut
• What free fecal water syndrome is and how it differs from diarrhea
• Why some horses might be more susceptible 

Free fecal water syndrome can be a frustrating and confusing issue for horse owners, with what looks like normal manure, but water leaking separately. This episode sets the stage for Part 2, where we’ll dive into practical feeding and management strategies that may help support horses dealing with free fecal water syndrome.

🎧 Listen now on the Beyond the Barn podcast

Have a topic idea or feedback to share? We want to connect with you! Email podcast@standlee.com

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Helpful BTB Episodes to Reference – 

~15:20 – Ep. 054: What is Leaky Gut in Horses, and Can It Be Prevented?

~24:44 – Ep. 098: Feeder Style, Dominance, and Stress in Group-Fed Horses – What the Research Says

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*Views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Standlee Premium Products, LLC.*

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Connect with Dr. Staniar:

• University Website
• Email - wstaniar@psu.edu

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Read full episode transcript

Katy Starr (00:01):

Hi, I'm Katy Starr and you're listening to Beyond the Barn. Join me on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition myths and sit down with some of the most intriguing experts from across the country. We'll also take you behind the scenes of how premium western quality forage is grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. I'm so glad you're here.

 

Katy Starr (00:27):

Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn. Dr. Vineyard, thanks for being here with us today. We have a really cool guest on with us to talk about a very interesting topic.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (00:38):

Oh, thanks for having me.

 

Katy Starr (00:39):

So, today we are joined by Dr. Burt Staniar, associate Professor of Animal Science at Penn State University. His work focuses on equine nutrition and exercise physiology, specifically how diet and management influence inflammation, gut health, and performance in horses. He also teaches and mentors students through hands-on equine research. So, he brings both the science and the practical application to the table. Dr. Staniar, we're excited to have you on to talk about free fecal water syndrome and what horse owners really should understand about fiber and hindgut health. So, thanks for joining us today.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (01:18):

Absolutely thrilled to do so. And listening to you say those things really makes me think that I'm pretty lucky to have a job where I get to do two things that I love so much, which is research and teaching. So, I listen to those things, I'm like, yeah, that's pretty good. I like doing those things.

 

Katy Starr (01:31):

That's awesome. I love that. And before we get started, just for our listeners, a reminder that any of the topics that we cover on the Beyond the Barn podcast are more generalized and are not specific to any individual horse or any specific situation. So, be sure to always work with your veterinarian and nutritionist before making any drastic changes to your horse's feed program. Or you can reach out to us with questions for our PhD equine nutritionists on any specifics that you'd like to know. And as we are going into the conversation today about free fecal water syndrome, I just want to be clear that today's conversation is more focused on the nutrition and management strategies for it. So, if your horse is experiencing diarrhea, weight loss, colic signs or anything that concerns you medically, that's absolutely a conversation to make sure that you have with your veterinarian. So, Dr. Stanier, just to get us started, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background with horses and where you grew up?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (02:26):

So, again, I think of why I am so lucky and it's the fact that I, I did grow up around horses. You know, I started riding when I was probably about three or four years old. I grew up in New England, and we had all different kinds of horses. I think my first memory of horseback riding was doing some pole bending or barrel racing with like a little pony, I think his name was Brownie. So, have these far off Western roots, but then quickly got into English riding. And my family for most of the time, we did a lot of fox hunting actually up in New England and Massachusetts and Connecticut. And so, I have a real soft spot for riding through the woods really fast, going over jumps some crazy horses. That's kind of the thing I like the most. I'm, I'm less comfortable in the ring in front of a bunch of people and certainly don't like a judge judging how I'm doing things. So, , that's a little by my background and, and it's funny, I never would've guessed that I would end up where I am today continuing to work with horses. So, it's fabulous.

 

Katy Starr (03:24):

Yeah, it's a great place to be in your career when you can take your passion, something that you've always really loved, and make it something that you get to do every day.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (03:30):

That's right. Absolutely.

 

Katy Starr (03:32):

So, much of your career has been focused on fiber as it relates to equine nutrition. Can you give us a short overview of fiber as it relates to horses? What is it? Why is it so important? And then briefly touch on the different types of fiber.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (03:48):

Fiber is really at the heart of what horses consume, of what horses eat. Horses have been here on the planet earth for a long time. I tend to think that they've been a grazing species for probably, you know, estimates are around 40 million years. So, this is what they've been doing. And again, I'm a little bit biased. I am an equine nutritionist, but when I look at the horse, this is what they do. This is what they were built to do. They were built to eat grass and a lot of grass is fiber. So, when I think about what are we talking about, how are we defining fiber, it's really what holds the grass plant up so that it can capture the sun's rays so that it can reproduce. It's the structural part of those plants. Fiber is what allows, it doesn't matter whether it's a tree or a blade of grass to kind of hold itself up to the sunlight and collect the energy from the sun and turn that into a whole host of other molecules.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (04:46):

And so, fiber is that structural part of the plant. And we talk about it oftentimes as structural carbohydrates. So, sometimes you'll hear people call fiber structural carbohydrates and that's what we're talking about. It's the structure of the plant, it's the plant cell walls. And so, that's kind of a plant-based kind of chemical description of that. The other thing I would like horse owners to think about and we will talk about as we go through today and talking about free fecal water syndrome, is the idea that there's also a physical component to that fiber. I want you to think about the fact that it's the two by fours that are holding the plant up, that structural component of things. And so, there is a physical like how long is it? What does it look like? How hard is it? One of the things we haven't talked about, you know, how stemmy does that plant feel?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (05:36):

And there are going to be a lot of things that we talk about today where that makes a lot of sense. As we're evaluating the fiber content of what we're feeding, we think about that. So, you can think about whether it's the fiber that's in the hay that you're feeding, that's one thing. Or maybe it's the fiber in the whole oats that you're feeding as well. Whole oats that whole is made of fiber and we all know you can pick up an oat and you can feel it and it, you can kind of squeeze it and feel it. It feels kind of crunchy. It's kind of hard. And that's that structural carbohydrates. It's the fiber that you're feeling there really. I mean there are other things that are part to it, but I think those are some important things to be thinking about.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (06:12):

So, kind of going along those lines, one of the things I've heard you talk a lot about Dr. Staniar, is we know about structural fiber, but then there's also this concept of effective fiber and especially how it relates to, you know, how it behaves in the horse's digestive tract. Can you kind of elaborate on effective fiber and how do we know if the horse is getting enough of it and what it is?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (06:36):

Sure. I'm fascinated by this question and I think this comes from a little bit of my animal science background. So, one of the fields that knows effective fiber best is really the dairy nutrition field. This is a concept that has been used with dairy cattle for a very long time and understanding those herbivores, after all, horses and cattle are all herbivores, they're all grazing species, they're all eating grass and forages. But there's been a lot of good research done in dairy cattle to understand what they really call is physically effective fiber. We could probably do an entire podcast talking about that . Yeah. But for the sake of keeping it relatively short, I want people to think when they think about what is effective fiber, how do I know what that is? How do I quantify that? Well, effective fiber is dietary fiber that is going to change number one, how much the animal chews.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (07:33):

So, if you have a certain pile of food that you put in front of a horse and it chews that food a thousand times to eat it all and you have another pile of food that weighs the same amount, you put it in front of the horse and it chews that food 2000 times, then you could make the argument that there's more physically effective fiber in the second pile of food. And that's actually some of the research we do. My students would laugh listening to this podcast because I've had 20 students in stalls all with little clickers counting how many times the horses are chewing every time they chew. Every time they chew, click, click, click, click, click, click.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (08:08):

Now that is a typical grad student activity right there. That's great. That's building character. I love it.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (08:15):

Yeah. And we had a good time doing it, so that was great. Yes. The other component is a little bit harder to explain, but I'm going to try to use some analogies to illustrate that. If you read the dairy literature, what they would say is physically effective fiber results in a biphasic nature of the gastrointestinal lumen. Okay, bear with me here for a second. What that really means is that the food, once it goes into the gastrointestinal tract, easily separates into a solid and fluid component, easily separates into those two components. And so, I want you to imagine for a second some chewed up hay and you put it in a glass like this glass that I'm holding here and it would float on top of the water there. It wouldn't mix in with the water. Now I want you to imagine, and again I feel like I'm getting a little bit old now, but I used to eat cream of wheat or oatmeal and I put that into this glass here and I let it sit for a while.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (09:10):

It's going to kind of congeal and be much more homogeneous. It's going to be one phase. It's going to kind of be this wet gel-like phase that's in there where you can't really separate the fluid and the solid components that is not biphasic. So, the oatmeal or the cream of wheat has less physically effective fiber than the hay has because we don't get that separation. And that's really going to impact some things that we'll talk about when we think about like rate of passage of different components to the diet and how the gastrointestinal tract handles those things. I think it's important as a foundation to remember that the horse evolved for 40 million years to eat the one that separates into the two components. And it's really only been, you can argue whether it's a thousand years or 500 years or 200 years where we've been feeding diets that have a lot more of the smaller particle size. That doesn't mean those are always bad, it just means we have to think about what the impact of that is on how the gastrointestinal tract is behaving.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (10:15):

I love this. This is all fascinating and you think about when you talk about fecal water syndrome, because that's what we're here to talk about. The GI tract is not behaving , right? And so, this concept does affect that effective fiber and maybe even a little bit taking a step back using fiber as a management tool. And so, we're going to talk a lot about that in relation to fecal water syndrome using fiber as a management tool. But I think that is in general, in any way that we feed horses. Using fiber as a management tool is something I've definitely heard you talk about. What do you mean by that? Is using fiber in your feeding program a management tool? We talked about chewing, we've talked about rate of passage, you know, what else can fiber relate to management?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (11:02):

I think what is important for a a horse owner or those caring for horses to understand is that, and you know, I think everybody listening to this podcast wants to educate themselves. So, it requires embracing that education, realizing that fiber is actually a relatively complicated concept. There are a lot of different types of fiber and we can deal with everything from looking at a molecular level, thinking about fiber that has different kinds of molecules that are a part of it that make it up to thinking about it at a macro level where we're really looking at what's the length of the fiber in that diet. And so, you have to start thinking about terms that you're going to hear as far as soluble fiber and insoluble fiber, fermentable fiber. How rapidly is that fiber going to be fermented? So, if you begin to think about those and realize, wow, fiber's really complicated and there's a lot of different types, maybe I should educate myself about it a little bit more, then you begin to think about, well we talk about beet pulp all the time.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (12:06):

Beet pulp has one profile of different fibers that it has within its fibers. So, hear me, it's not one type of fiber, it's multiple different types of fibers. But beet pulp has a profile of different fibers, but timothy hay has a very different profile of fibers that are present in, or a whole oat has another different profile. And all of a sudden, you start to think, gosh, I can mix those things in my horse's diet. This is naturally what horses consume. But I can begin to think about different mixtures and I can think, you know what, I'm going to incorporate a little bit of beet pulp in, or I'm going to incorporate maybe some legume forage in because it has a different combination of fibers. And maybe that's maybe that different combination of fibers maybe, I don't know what it is specifically. That's okay. You don't have an exact profile.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (12:55):

But you begin to understand that every different feed stuff that you provide has a little bit of a different profile. And then you can use that to address a problem like free fecal water syndrome where you can say, you know what, maybe my horse, and again, I do think horses oftentimes need to be fed as individuals. Maybe my horse needs a different combination of fibers that would really be beneficial for them. And I think that's what I mean as using it as a management tool, really realizing that the world is your oyster. There's a million different types of fiber out there. So, let's play with those. Let's begin to understand that. Let's figure out what's best for my horse.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (13:31):

I love that. That's a great explanation. Thank you.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (13:33):

You're welcome. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Katy Starr (13:35):

Yeah, I love that perspective. Okay, so we've mentioned a few times so far that we're going to be discussing free fecal water syndrome in horses. So, Dr. Staniar, can you explain what that is?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (13:48):

Free fecal water syndrome can be simply described as normal fecal balls with water and fluid coming out separately. So, you'd have those normal, the road apples that we're all familiar with along with water or fluid coming out separately. It's as simple as that. Now that's in opposition to what we would be probably from a health perspective, a little bit more concerned about, which would be diarrhea where we no longer have those formed fecal balls. Now we have much higher moisture content of the feces coming out and you can't differentiate those fecal balls anymore. And that's, you know, that's where there's actually a lot more water coming out under those circumstances. And that's where we begin to worry about some health concerns and dehydration and a place where you should definitely contact and consult with your veterinarian.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (14:46):

I would also like to jump in here and add, there is a common misconception, maybe not common, but I've heard this more than once from some horse owners that may not understand exactly maybe the difference between free fecal water and diarrhea. And there's also another term that causes confusion, which we're not talking about today, but I'm going to mention it here in case people have ever had this misconception is leaky gut syndrome, which is a kind of a new term that's coming out and a lot of people are starting to talk more about it. But I had an owner once come to me and tell me that her horse had leaky gut syndrome and we were talking and I was trying to help her work through that. But it ended up after I asked a few more questions, her horse actually had free fecal water syndrome.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (15:28):

And it is exactly what you described about fully fecal formed balls paired with water kind of before, after, or during like the expulsion of manure that is free fecal water syndrome. It is not leaky gut and you can't diagnose leaky gut from looking at their feces. So, I guess I just wanted to clear that up because I've definitely heard that from some horse owners. But what you're saying, Dr. Staniar, is if, if a horse has diarrhea, that's a reason to call your vet. That is not a normal situation. I wouldn't say that free fecal water syndrome is normal either, but it's certainly not an emergency situation. Would you agree?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (16:05):

I would agree with that. And you know, I think one of the things, I'm just being kind of honest here, and as a part of the conversation is having been around horses my entire life, I have seen, and of course now being a nutritionist, I have a great appreciation for feces , there is a full continuum here. And so, I imagine, and I've certainly seen that there are people out there that it's still, even what we're saying may not be completely clear or one person's view of what's normal might be very different than another person's view of what is normal. And the amount of water in the feces can run a full range. For example, one of the things that I think about sometimes is having worked, again, I tend to think of broodmares and young foals and this sort of thing, and I've certainly seen herds of broodmares when we get into the spring and the grass has a high moisture content, there's a lot more moisture in their feces, even to the point where somebody might be, well that kind of looks like a cow pie, that kind of looks like diarrhea.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (17:07):

And I, I wouldn't be as concerned about it necessarily. Now, you know, there's a fine line there that I would not be able to define sitting here sort of talking about. We'd have to look at different pictures, right. But I think it doesn't hurt to, again, if you're concerned, contact your veterinarian and sort of go that direction. The other thing that I wanted to say and I remembered is that when we talk about free fecal water syndrome, like it has this term syndrome that's associated with it that really in some ways under these circumstances for this situation highlights the fact that it still hasn't been well defined. There are probably a lot of different things that kind of cause it oftentimes that word syndrome is associated with something that that is multifactorial in nature. There's a whole bunch of different things that may be coming together to cause that. We'll talk about some of that today. But the fact of the matter is, and this is my I guess opinion, but based on my reading of the literature and, and what I know that free fecal water syndrome isn't clearly understood right now. I mean we can sit here and talk about what we do know, but the fact of the matter is there may not be one single cause or it's a sign, it's a characteristic of what may be caused by a whole host of different things.

 

Katy Starr (18:19):

As we kind of go into this, I think there's an obvious sign that comes with free fecal water syndrome. But if you could maybe just talk to us a little bit about for horse owners to really have a good understanding of what they're seeing. What are some of the signs and symptoms of free fecal water syndrome in horses?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (18:40):

And I'll be looking for Dr. Vineyard to jump in on this as well because I think she's seen a lot of that. I'll go back to the definition. So, the first and foremost, we've got this fluid and water that is, I would say a significant amount. I mean there's always moisture content to feces, so it's not like you're squeezing those fecal balls, but that there may be water leaking down the back end of our horse. We're seeing some staining that's occurring, but at the same time we're seeing those formed fecal balls and otherwise the feces that are sitting in the stall look normal. The other thing that I think is kind of interesting about it is the fact that oftentimes the horse seems somewhat unbothered by it. They're relatively normal. Their behavior may be normal, they may be performing normally. So, beyond that, I don't have any other particular things that really jump out at me like this is a problem, but I'll ask Dr. Vineyard if she has anything to add to that.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (19:36):

I would agree with you. It really comes down to that what you said, you know, the normal fecal balls with water, the horses often seem unbothered, which surprisingly, you know, when they have this, although there have been some reports in the literature and I have also worked with some cases that horses might show a little bit of discomfort as they're defecating. So, that's not completely unheard of. But even more reason like to involve your vet sooner rather than later if they're showing like stepping, you know, with their hind legs back and forth or looking a little bit uncomfortable. But it's just one of those things that really just comes down to looking at the water coming out in addition to the feces and they're staining, you know, I mean that's sort of like leftover, right? And if there's staining, but you know, your horse has normal manure when you have them in the cross ties, but you're seeing all the staining happening and maybe they're kept out on the, in the field, you know, 24/7 and you're not there to watch them all the time and see their fecal balls maybe start paying more attention when you start seeing that staining as well.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (20:36):

Right. And I think one of the things that I have seen come along with that staining is in a little bit more, I'm going to say extreme cases, but some of that staining can result in some scalding of the tissue, you know, and so some irritation of the tissue because of course what's coming out of their gastrointestinal tract is not just water. There are a whole host of molecules in there, there's enzymes that are in there, there's a pH of that that's coming out that can ultimately cause some surface level damage of the epithelium there on the skin where it's coming out. So, I would certainly advise somebody to be washing that area off if that's a problem that they're having.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (21:17):

And using diaper rash cream or Aquaphor or some other type of nice skin barrier until you can kind of hopefully get this under control, which is what we're going to hopefully have some ideas about here today.

 

Katy Starr (21:28):

Yeah. One of the things that I noticed when I was doing some research on this is some people that have dealt with their horse having this, it's a common issue, especially for those that show their horses. And so, you talk about the staining and things like that, that that's a struggle for those trying to go in and looking nice and making sure that their horse presents well in that manner. So, I know that that's a concern for some of those horse owners that are kind of in that area of ownership.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (21:58):

100%.

 

Katy Starr (22:00):

So, Dr. Stanier, are there any certain types of horses that seem to be more susceptible to fecal water syndrome, like breed, sex, life stage, metabolic horses, or anything like that?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (22:12):

Again, I'm going to mix what I know from the literature with my own opinion in this kind of area. And so, there is a fair bit for this being a relatively new thing. I mean, you know, this is a recognized problem in horses and so scientists, veterinarians have studied this problem and looked at it. What you're really asking is about some of the epidemiology behind it. You know, what is it that we know that kind of contributes to this particular syndrome? And so, there are some hints that are out there. There's an interesting study that kind of indicated that perhaps some of the paint breeds had an increased risk of this occurring. There is some evidence that maybe geldings have an increased risk of this problem. And again, I'll look for Dr. Vineyard's input here a little bit. I think what makes the most sense to me that is also a part of those studies where they've looked at the risk factors is oftentimes the word stress is brought up. And I think in even one of the studies that talked about the lower ranking horses in the herd as being a risk factor. And so, to me what makes a lot of sense is because it's actually one of the areas that I study with horses as well, is understanding stress. And I think that stress has real world implications in regard to physiology and specifically the gastrointestinal tract. So, I don't know about the whole paint horses aspect of things. I'm probably going to just leave that one alone and just say, okay, that's kind of interesting.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (23:49):

It was one study and that hasn't really come up in other studies, but to note it was found in the one study. But I agree.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (23:56):

Right. But I think if you have, I mean I've again been around horses my entire life. If you've got a herd of 20 horses that are all out there and we've got a group of mares that tends to be at the top of the pecking order and we've got a couple of geldings that are at the bottom of the pecking order and okay, they might be slightly more stressed in some ways. So, as I think about free fecal water syndrome, probably the thing in addition to nutrition, and we were talking about that a lot. I'm thinking about are these horses stressed in any way? And that can be through their exercise program, through their management and then and diet is important, but those two things kind of intersect with one another. So, I'm less so concerned about particular breeds being more or less at risk, but there might be breeds that are more stressed than others. So, you know, you might see that your thoroughbreds that are preparing for the triple crown are a little bit more stressed than a group of some other horses that are out on a paddock somewhere. So, that's how I'm thinking about it.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (25:00):

I totally agree with you. You know, and stress looks, there's a lot of different definitions of stress in terms of a horse. You know, it's not the same type of stress that people feel. You know, things that stress horses out oftentimes we don't even think about. Even lack of forage can be a source of stress or being paired with a herd that is incompatible, having the wrong friends. can be stressful for horses. And so, you know, starting to think more about your horse's experience of stress and minimizing different stressors in their life is not only good for horses with fecal water syndrome, but I would also say for pretty much all horses.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (25:37):

For example, think about transport stress when you take a horse from home and you go to a show somewhere, you know, again. And so, then you're dealing with a combination of both that new location, all the new animals, and maybe you're even dealing with a difference in diet depending on what you're doing. And those things bring together. So, you start to think about all the variables that may be contributing, you start to add those up and you're like, okay, maybe this is a situation where it's not surprising that I'm seeing that problem develop.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (26:08):

And so, going along the lines of risk factors, or maybe we see this more in different types of horses than others, what about different times of year? Is there a link between seasons or is there a seasonal role with fecal water syndrome that that you've ever seen?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (26:26):

I believe that there is, I have certainly talked to horse owners that have said, I tend to see this free fecal water more let's say in the winter than I do in the summer. So, I've heard that.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (26:40):

I experienced that same comment as well. Yes.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (26:43):

But the funny thing is then I'll talk to somebody else that says, oh, but I see it more in the spring than I do in the fall. So, I'm less confident about a specific season and more about the fact that those horses' diets and environment are probably changing with season. And that may be what's influencing their increased prevalence or increased showing of free fecal water at different times of year. And, and those different people may need to think about their horses diets during those particular season. Like, oh, well maybe we could change things in this way or that way.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (27:23):

Like if this is something that comes up, you know, and this maybe the first time you've seen it identifying what has changed in my diet or my horse's diet recently. Maybe it's related to the season, like for example, going from summer to fall where you start to rely more on dried forages as opposed to pasture. That's a huge change for the horse's hindgut. And that's oftentimes I will see horses come up with more fecal water syndrome incidents going into, you know, the fall and the winter because they're relying more on dried forages. You mentioned spring. Another huge change is going the opposite direction, relying less on dried forages and more on spring pasture. And hopefully most horse owners are aware of the dangers of spring pasture and not acclimating horses appropriately to it. You know, if you've had your horse on dry lot all winter and you've been saving this wonderful spring pasture and it's ready to go, you need to acclimate your horse slowly because that can definitely upset the hindgut ecosystem. But that's a big change. That's why, because we want to change slowly. Microbes hate change, , we want to sneak change up on them if we can.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (28:28):

One of the things I love that you're saying is that, you know, this is a cliche in equine nutrition circles, but is that slow transition to different diets? Of course, we're always looking to do that. And I think that that's really beneficial. So, if you can slowly transition, then you should try to do that. But even in those you know, I think about my own horse who has since passed away, but you know, I think about Guinness here in Pennsylvania and going on the boarding operation where he was, you know, we, we've just been dealing with snow on our pastures. I mean, they haven't been able to get through to any fresh forage for months. And so, that's a very different situation where they're absolutely relying on the dried preserved forage that we have for them in the barn or that we're putting out in the pasture. And so, until they have those multiple different forages available, then it's completely changed. Getting back to fiber as a management tool, it's changed the fiber fractions that they're getting both the physical and the chemical aspects of those. And so, it is my belief that that's probably a big part of where the problem is coming from.

 

Katy Starr (29:30):

And so, once we recognize that our horse probably has free fecal water syndrome, the question everyone asks is why, and you did mention this earlier about stress, but are there any other management or health factors that can cause or impact free fecal water syndrome in horses from a more of a medical standpoint, like dental issues, parasite load, or something like that, that a horse owner should probably rule out with their veterinarian before adjusting nutrition? Or what are your thoughts on that?

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (30:02):

Yes, I think that people should definitely try to rule some of those other things out. So, I think it never hurts, honestly, I would say once a year or twice a year, probably not more frequently than that to evaluate your horse's teeth and dentition. So, I think having your veterinarian do that or an appropriately certified equine dentist, somebody looking at those teeth and evaluating incisors, premolars, molars, does everything look good? That can be very valuable.

 

Dr. Kelly Vineyard (30:33):

Can I jump in here? Because you mentioned evaluating the molars. I would like to point out, really the only way you can effectively do that is to use a speculum in the horse's mouth. So, there are different types of dental practitioners out there. And so, if sometimes I do see horse owners making the mistake of they think those speculums are harmful or painful for the horse, and they avoid using those, don't be afraid of using the speculums with a properly trained dental technician or veterinarian, preferably because the vet can sedate your horse if needed. They can use the speculum. And that really is the best way to get way back in there. It's so far back in those molars that's really important, grinding surface, especially for long stem forages. And that's really the best way you can get in and address any problems that might be happening back there.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (31:19):

Yep. Dr. Vineyard and I spoke previously about rabbit holes. We could go down , but equine dentition and understanding how absolutely critical that is to our horses consuming. And I'm just going to, for the purposes of this podcast, talk about the fiber. Their teeth are uniquely adapted to reducing particle size as they consume that fiber is truly incredible that a horse can take something that might be, I don't know, you know, 20 centimeters, 50 centimeters in length, and within a number of seconds, reduce that to about a millimeter or two before it swallows it. That is truly miraculous when you think about it. And that requires their teeth to be in good condition. Now having said that, talking about this same topic, I think there might be some component of age that's also a piece of this that we need to consider because as our horses get older than 20 years of age, and that dentition and those teeth that normally would be continuing to erupt, stopped erupting.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (32:19):

And so, as a horse gets past 20 years of age, that begins to get beyond what the normal lifespan of a horse would've been in the wild. And so, we have to really evaluate their teeth because in an animal that is, let's say 40 years old, their molars and pre-molars may just not be as good. And so, we have to think about what we're feeding them because they may not be able to grind that fiber up as well. And that could contribute to free fecal water. So, yes, dentitions, one thing, parasite load Katy, you brought that up. I think that that's something very important to consider because of course these parasites, oftentimes they are impacting the health of the gastrointestinal tract in a whole host of different ways. And so, that can have an impact there. Stress we brought up. So, evaluating the stress of your animal, I think thinking about metabolically where your animal is, although I think the connection of metabolic disease, metabolic syndrome to free fecal water is less clear.

 

Dr. Burt Staniar (33:17):

But I think that that's worth thinking about because I could see the situation where we're talking about maybe a horse, maybe in the Cushing's, the PPID area, where there may be some impact on how those hormones are impacting the health of the horse's gastrointestinal tract and inflammation that's happening there. So, I think that those are rule outs that I would like to make and talk to my veterinarian about before I jump right into, okay, let's do some other things. That doesn't mean I can't use fiber and dietary fiber as a tool in those animals as well, but I want to know what are the parameters that I'm dealing with here.

 

Katy Starr (33:55):

Right. You know, that's excellent. So, this part one episode really sets the stage for the next part of our conversation because understanding fiber is one thing, but knowing how to actually use it in your horse's diet is another. In part two, we're going to talk about the practical side of this, how forage quality, different fiber sources, hay analysis, and even probiotics might fit into managing free fecal water syndrome for your horse. Episode 112, part two of this conversation will release on Tuesday, April 7th.

 

Katy Starr (34:30):

Thanks for listening to the Beyond the Barn podcast by Standlee Forage. We'd love for you to share our podcast with your favorite people and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform. Until next time, keep your cinch tight and don't forget to turn off the water.