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Ep. 054: What is Leaky Gut in Horses, and Can It Be Prevented?

Co-hosts Dr. Tania Cubitt and Katy Starr discuss leaky gut syndrome in horses, including the type of horses that are more at risk, symptoms, causes and treatment for leaky gut and management tips to implement to prevent leaky gut from developing in horses.

Episode Notes

On this episode, co-hosts Dr. Tania Cubitt and Katy Starr discuss leaky gut syndrome in horses, including:


• What is leaky gut and what type of horses are most at risk?

• What are the symptoms, causes, and treatment for leaky gut in horses?

• What management tips can we implement to prevent leaky gut in our horses?


Have any topics you want to hear more about? Let us know at


Notable References:




  • *Views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Standlee Premium Products, LLC.*

Katy Starr (00:01):

Hi, I'm Katy.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (00:02):

And I'm Dr. Cubitt. We're going Beyond the Barn. Come join us on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition myths and interview some of the most intriguing experts in the country.


Katy Starr (00:15):

We'll go behind the scenes of how premium Western quality forage is grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. We're so glad you're here. 


Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn, Dr. Cubitt. It's good to have you here with us today.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (00:34):

As always, I'm excited to be back.


Katy Starr (00:36):

So we have more to cover and discuss about the horses' gut and microbiome later this year. But today we're going to dive a bit into the topic of leaky gut. And Dr. Cubitt, I saw something that I found to be quite interesting along this topic is that in horses, gastrointestinal issues are reported second to only old age as the leading cause of death.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (01:03):

Absolutely. Yep. And we always think about things like colic, but what is the cause of some of these colics? And I think if we follow the steps back, that's where we're now getting this leaky gut term. And we'll explain that more to our listeners.


Katy Starr (01:17):

Yeah, it's very interesting. So before we get started on today's topic, any of the topics that we do cover on the Beyond the Barn podcast are more generalized and not specific to any individual horse or any specific situation. Be sure to always work with your veterinarian and nutritionist before making any drastic changes to your horses' feed program. Or you can reach out and talk directly with Dr. Cubitt or Dr. Duren on any specifics that you'd like to know. So just to get us started, Dr. Cubitt, before we actually get into leaky gut, can you actually explain the layout of the horse's digestive system?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (01:58):

Oh yes. So you know, we could spend an hour just talking about the digestive system. Ultimately first we have the teeth. You keep those floated. And then we have the esophagus where the teeth grind and masticate, which is mixing with saliva. Then the food's going to go down the esophagus into the stomach, which has two distinct regions. It's full of acid in the bottom, breaking down the food. Then we go out of there into the small intestine where we have enzymes. We do a lot of breakdown, a lot of absorption of sugars and starches and protein and minerals. And then from there we go into what we call is the hind gut. It's multiple different sections, but it starts with the cecum, which is a blind sack entry and exit is the same point. Then the large colon, small colon. Now in that hind gut, this is what we call the fermentation vat of the horse.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (02:48):

And in a cow we call those foregut fermenters, f-o-r-e like beginning, cause all of their fermentation begins in the beginning part of their digestive system. But in the horse it's happening in the hind, in the back part of their digestive system. And so this hindgut is full of all different kinds of live organisms, microbes, viruses, fungi, yeast, you name it, they're in there, good and bad. And research has shown that healthy horses have certain ratios of populations in certain populations in higher numbers than others. But ultimately that there's a lot of diversity, that there are a lot of different kinds of bugs that live in this hindgut. So that's the microbiome that you may have heard people talk about and the actual lining of the intestinal wall. I guess this is our next question. This intestinal barrier in the hindgut is really, really important and it can very easily break down.


Katy Starr (03:48):

Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about, and obviously this can be a very visual conversation, which I know can be difficult on a podcast, but we are going to do our best to link some research and images to go with this if anybody would like to look more at it and have a better visual. But if you could kind of go into what the normal intestinal barrier, first of all, what its purpose is and then what can we expect with it? What, what deems it normal and then what's abnormal for it.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (04:21):

Perfect. Yeah, I actually heard this at a conference recently and I thought it was really kind of intuitive that when you eat food and it's in, it goes down your throat it, it's in your stomach, it's in your small intestine and it's in your colon, it's still outside the body and that sounds crazy, but unless it's been absorbed through, into your bloodstream and into your muscles, then it's inside your body. So there's good and bad things that are going on in the gut, right? And there's good and bad bacteria, but those bad bacteria never get a foothold because we're healthy and we have a strong intestinal barrier. So when you look at the lining of the intestine and we'll focus more on the hindgut here, that colon tissue. And one way when I don't have pictures in front of me, and as Katy said, we will definitely post a bunch of pictures so you can visually see these, but if you want to just put your hands together and put the little finger sides of your hands together so they butt together.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (05:20):

So your thumbs are pointing outwards and your palms are facing you and your fingers are what we call villi. And then your palms are the intestinal cells and the villi go into where the food is. They are the inside of the intestine. Right? And then there's all kinds of food floating there. And what those fingers do, those villi is they increase surface area. So you've got up one side down all up and down your fingers that's increasing the surface area for absorption to occur. And on those fingers there's even a little more villi. And so there's lots of little hairs. But ultimately what happens is when food is properly digested and broken down, then it will absorb through those fingers and through that intestinal cell, that epithelial cell and on the wrist side of your palm, that's the bloodstream down there and it'll go into the bloodstream and then the bloodstream like a superhighway and it carries those nutrients to the different parts of your body where they need to be utilized.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (06:22):

Now between where your little finger sides of your palm are touching each other, that's what we call tight junctions. So there's a lot of technical terms, but really it's just like Velcro. There are these tight, strong velcros that hold those cells together so stuff isn't leaking in between there. They stay nice and closed, right? And they hold those cells together. That's a normal healthy intestinal barrier, but it's where your palms touch together on that little finger side, that is where we see breakdown in that intestinal permeability, which is where we're kind of going with this conversation. But ultimately those tight junctions are like tight, strong, new velcros that hold those cells together. And then you see that all along the intestinal wall forming this barrier, there's mucus on those villi as well that also protect, just like in the bottom part of the stomach, they protect that tissue from acid and other toxins. But it's a normal healthy intestinal barrier in very quick terminology.


Katy Starr (07:31):

Excellent. So, and you were kind of leading to this, but what then is leaky gut in horses, actually sometimes they reference it I guess in more of some of the scientific research is a altered intestinal permeability, right? I guess that's more of the technical term.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (07:47):

Yeah, you're going to hear, so in scientific text you'll hear altered intestinal permeability or intestinal dysbiosis because there is a problem going on there. And there's so many different things that cause this altered intestinal permeability. But ultimately remember in the normal healthy gut where we've got our arms and little fingers touching together and that tight junction is really strong velcro, we've all had velcro that got stuff stuck in it, or it's just old and it no longer sticks very well. So now we have a separation and we have a gap there where nondigested food particles, bad bacteria, stuff that's supposed to stay in the intestinal tract, is now literally leaking between that tight junction that's supposed to be closed. So it's increasing intestinal permeability or altering the natural intestinal permeability and causing, and the term leaky gut really came from human nutrition. And I think that it's just a visual that you can really understand. Okay, literally your gut is leaking contents into your bloodstream where it is wreaking havoc. That stuff is not meant to leak out of the gut, it's meant to stay in the gut. Then from there we see a whole slew of different symptoms in our horse because of this leaky gut or altered intestinal permeability.


Katy Starr (09:19):

Right. So how much is actually, as of right now, how much is known about leaky gut? Is this a well-researched area or is there still a lot of opportunities for discovery with this?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (09:33):

I mean I think you live under a rock if you haven't heard the term leaky gut or microbiome in human nutrition these days, whether it's on the news, in an ad, on social media, where you're reading, so everybody's talking about the microbiome and leaky gut and it's the same in horses. I mean this year we have our annual Equine science society meeting and I had to review a bunch of papers for some of the nutrition section and the majority of them have the term microbiome gut permeability in the title or in the abstract because it is, I won't say it's a well-researched area because we're still in its infancy and there's just so much we don't know. But if you use the term well research as in are people actually researching this? Yes. I mean this is, this is where research is in all animals right now.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (10:25):

Not just horses and not just people. Because if you think about it, 90% of disorders come from your guts, originate in the gut and 70% of your immune system also originates in your gut and you can connect back mental health behavior, certain cancers, there's so many things that can be brought back to hormonal imbalance, can all come back to gut health because that microbiome that we were talking about, it actually acts as another organ and can on its own, communicate with your brain and your brain can communicate with those microbiome your gut bugs. So it is being researched, we're in its infancy. There's so much we need to learn, but it's so exciting because we're actually able to explain so many different things because now we're understanding gut health a little better.


Katy Starr (11:25):

It's kind of amazing cause it's almost like there's all these issues that you have unknown what's causing it. And a lot of these things, it seems like it's almoststems back to the gut. To the gut. Yeah, it's incredible.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (11:39):

Mm-hmm . And I have two little kids and I'm constantly, you know, they change their behavior, they're having outbursts or they're doing this or that. And I'm always like, oh well what have we been eating lately? You know, I'm fascinated from a parent's perspective raising children. We've known for a long time that certain ingredients in their diet can change their behavior. And so I study it for myself from that aspect as well. It's absolutely fascinating.


Katy Starr (12:05):

Yeah, it's really interesting. It'll be nice to see what some of that research that's coming out and what they've been working on. So what type of horses are most commonly impacted by a leaky gut? Are there some that are more impacted than others?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (12:20):

You know, I think any horse at any stage, there's certainly stages of their life where they can be at higher risk of developing leaky gut. And it's just stress. Stress increases cortisol. Cortisol helps with this breakdown of these tight junctions. You can look at your horse that is really calm and quiet and has no stress in its life now, but maybe the weather changes or you took a buddy away or it's a brood mare and she's having a foal. There is just so many things that stress horses and that can increase the risk of leaky gut. But I would definitely say that if you said are some horses more commonly affected by it? Yeah. If you look at the horses that live in a really stressful environment and life, whether it be a show horse, a race horse that is living in stalls and doing a lot of exercise and maybe not getting as much forage in their diet cause they have to eat a lot of high carbohydrate ingredients to maintain energy level, then there's certain management styles that horses go through that might increase their risk for leaky gut. As far as if we talk about laminitis or metabolic syndrome than we've always talked about, certain breeds are more likely to develop those like pony breeds. And I wouldn't say it's the same as far as breed disposition and leaky gut, but I would say that there are certain management styles that horses are living in.


Katy Starr (13:46):

Right. So like management and environment have more of an impact than actual breed or anything like that. That makes a lot of sense.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (13:54):

Correct. Impact, exactly. And then if you were to do statistics, you would say, well thoroughbreds have a higher risk of leaky gut. Well it's not that thoroughbreds the breed do.Remember correlation does not mean causation. Right. So it would be highly correlated cause a lot of thoroughbreds are racehorses. 


Katy Starr (14:11):

Right. That would be a better explanation of that. Yeah. And then like you said, if you have a horse that tends to stress out a lot, that could kind of cause them to have more of an issue with that. And you actually already started talking a little bit about this, but maybe you could go into what some of the signs and symptoms of leaky gut are and what can we observe happening with our horses?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (14:36):

Yeah. And unfortunately a lot of them are actually similar to gastric ulcers, change in behavior, going off feed. One of the signs that I see a lot is a customer will, or a client will say to me, a horse doesn't want to eat their grain but they'll eat their hay. You know, that is when they're eating that grain and their gut is uncomfortable, then you know, that's increasing some of that discomfort, maybe increasing the acid content, but change in behavior, chronic diarrhea. Because if you look at this intestinal tissue, it also looks pretty damaged, looks painful. And so that tissue then is not able to absorb water and moisture. So if they're not absorbing moisture, then it's getting excreted from the body as diarrhea and that also will increase the horse's risk for dehydration. But for me, you can also, a veterinarian can ultrasound the abdominal wall and be looking for thickening in the intestinal lining as well. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as a gastric ulcer just to put a camera down there and scope them. But there are a few things. The other thing is, worst case scenario, I've had horses just completely go off all feed, they just have no appetite at all because they're in pain.


Katy Starr (15:53):

Anytime they eat. Yeah. 


Dr. Tana Cubitt (15:54):

Others are, it comes about because the client, the horse may have hives, allergies and be showing allergy like symptoms. Right. And a lot of that time, a lot of time that's a skin issue with flaky skin or actual bumps on skin. And so they'll do an allergy panel, they'll get the veterinarian to come out and do an allergy panel on the horse and it lights up like a Christmas tree and then they come to me, what am I going to feed this horse? I can't feed it anything. It's just allergic to everything and I just can't find anything to feed it. Typically in those cases, they're not actually allergic to any of those things. But we find that, you know, when we've got all of that toxic material flowing into the bloodstream, the body goes into protective mode. And it's has this chronic inflammation going on. And it's trying to get rid of all these toxins. So we're inflaming we're bringing all these nutrients to the area to get rid of these toxins and that, on an allergypanel will show up like they're allergic to everything. Because of chronic whole body inflammation that is just really trying to get rid of all this bad stuff.


Katy Starr (17:03):

That's really interesting. So you were talking about, I mean obviously we were talking about how important the gut is and what it does to keep the stuff that it's not supposed to be having move out into the blood flow and everything throughout the body. But what is the connection between the horse's gut and their brain?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (17:24):

I've done a couple of presentations on this and I always still feel very under informed because it is just such a huge topic and fascinating. But there's a thing called the vagus nerve that connects the brain down, it's like the superhighway and then it connects to your peripheral nervous system and your central nervous system. But the bugs literally can send signals to the brain. One of the, kind of the simplest ones that people can understand is sometimes we crave sweet foods, for example, and that's certain types of bacteria in your gut are actually sending signals to your brain that they, that you’re craving sweets.


Katy Starr (18:02):

So that’s what’s going on, is it?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (18:04):

Right. It's not you, you just don't have bad willpower. You just might have an altered microbiome. And so ultimately having good diversity, because typically that person may have, it's why they also talk about the artificially sweetened sodas. It's still a sweet flavor and so people still crave sweet. And it's not that the artificially sweet flavored soda is causing any kind of glucose or insulin spike, but it's in, it's keeping that person wanting that sweet stuff that then they may end up kind of falling off the bandwagon and maybe it's a, a donut or whatever. But that communication is fascinating. And we could spend a whole podcast just talking about the gut-brain access, but just know they communicate with each other.


Katy Starr (18:54):

We talked a lot about stress being a major cause for leaky gut. Are there other causes for leaky gut as well?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (19:01):

Really it all stems back to stress. If you put stress in the middle and then you go out and in like a spiderweb, because you might say to a client, well the weather changed or they ate a weed they shouldn't have eaten. Or their buddy got taken away or you changed the diet. Or something as simple as changing the field that they live in. I mean, we talk about trailering causing stress, but changing the field that the location that they're in can also increase these stress factors. So it really all does come back to stress. If we break it down though, sometimes people don't think about changing the diet, associating with stress. They think about changing the diet and then it upsets the microbial population in the gut, but ultimately it's also causing stress. So yeah, you can say, we all know in horse feeding don't make rapid feeding changes, but ultimately it stresses the gut, it stresses the bacteria so it, it really does all come back to stress.


Katy Starr (20:04):

And can a horse who has leaky gut be more susceptible then to other diseases or disorders?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (20:12):

Absolutely. If you go back to my statement earlier, about 70% of your immune system in is housed in your gut. And if your gut is unhealthy, then your immune system is not functioning. And if you've got a really severely damaged gut, 70% of your immune system potentially could be broken and not working. So you're working on 30% immune system. So yeah, you are definitely at risk for other disorders. And I think that is why, that's part of the reason it's not, like I said earlier, 90% of disorders can come back to gut failure. And I think it is because of the immune function, the amount of control your gut has over immune function. There's also, you know, research in humans about serotonin, your happy hormone and the vast majority of it is created by bugs that live in your gut. So this is the connection to mental health in people. Like if your gut bugs aren't functioning, they're not diverse and they're not producing that serotonin and then you're hobbling yourself as to the amount of this happy hormone that you can create. 


Katy Starr (21:19):

What's the treatment for a leaky gut? A horse with leaky gut? How do we help that horse?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (21:24):

Oh, and it's not just one thing, it's really overall management. And you know, I talk about stress a lot and I talk about trailering and changing the diet and the weather and exercise. And what we know is with certain horses, let's say a racehorse, I can't tell the owner or the trainer to stop exercising it or to stop trailering it and taking it to races where it's just like a crazy environment for those horses to be in. So there are certain stresses you can't take away. So you look at the whole picture and you think about the stresses that you can take away. Something as simple as feeding your horses at the exact same time every day because we've seen research that shows even just 30 minutes to an hour past when you normally would feed them, increases cortisol levels for increasing cortisol. Remember we're in case you can stress and that is going to start that breakdown of the gut where you feed the horse, slow feeders, feeding enough forage, if you have to feed a high grain diet, feeding in small meals more frequently.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (22:25):

I mean there's so many free, easy things that you can do. But then when it comes to actually altering the diet, so if we get a little deeper and I mentioned that diversity is really important and we want to have a wide variety of different bacteria in the gut. The two most prominent groupings of bugs, bacteria that live in the horse's gut are firmicutes and bacteroides. And in a healthy horse we have a lot of firmicutes and then a smaller amount of bacteroides. And then we have other like proteobacteria and spirochetes (spirochaetes) and other bacteria. But they're the two most prominent. Within the firmicutes, if you kind of go back to high school biochemistry, when we go down order and domain and family, there is a subset of bugs called lachnospiraceae. Lachnospiraceae produce primarily a thing called butyric acid. It's a volatile fatty acid.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (23:25):

And what butyric acid is for, is it's feeding, it's fuel for those intestinal cells that I showed you with your hands. It keeps them strong and healthy. That's the food that they use and it keeps those tight junctions healthy. So when we have a horse with impaired intestine, intestinal health, whether it be colitis or this altered intestinal permeability or leaky gut, what we see is the firmicutes get much smaller and thebacteroidesget much bigger. So if we're decreasing the amount of firmicutes, those lachnospiraceae that create butyrate, the body's own natural defense mechanism, now they are much, much lower. Right. So we are just naturally taking away one of the body's own natural defense mechanisms when they get sick. So there are other supplements that you can add into the diet like butyrate. We know that zinc, if you look at any immune supplement in the supermarket that you would take yourself, we all focus on vitamin C cause it's an antioxidant.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (24:30):

Right? But followed up closely. And usually what's more important is actually zinc. Zinc also helps to protect those intestinal cells. So as one ingredient, it's butyric acid and zinc. But whether you're using that ingredient or you just want to make sure your horse's gut is healthy so that they can support their own production of butyrate. Research has shown that thislachnospiraceaethat creates that butyrate is highest in horses that have a high forage diet. You've all heard me talk about variety of forage, not just feeding one type of forage or fiber. And that's also really important because then we're encouraging diversity and all the bugs have a different job. So from an actual just feeding management, it's making sure your horse getting as much fiber as you possibly can into that horse's diet whilst still maintaining the calories and protein they need to do whatever job they have. There are certain supplements you can add, but it's also just overall management. We need to really step back and look at these horses more wholistically [as a whole] and control more aspects of their overall management versus just pinpointing one thing. 


Katy Starr (25:43):

Right. And I know this is probably more of a vet question than a nutritionist type of question, but if there's a horse that's currently has leaky gut, is that how it's treated through just adjusting management and including some of those nutrients that might be lacking? Or does a veterinarian actually have other things that they need to do to help that horse in the interim?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (26:09):

To be honest, I get a lot of calls from veterinarians that are pulling their hair out because they don't really know what to do. We've got a horse with chronic diarrhea and we've used some of the clay-based products that are just going to bind up that water that's in the manure, but they don't fix the problem that caused it in the first place. So this is a conversation that I have pretty much daily with veterinarians around the country, is what is the whole management program. Now there are certain drugs that they might use to decrease inflammation and that kind of thing, but just those alone, you can feed them for the full week or whatever the protocol is. But if you don't fix what caused it in the first place, which is likely the management the horse is under, then it's just going to keep coming back. It's the same with gastric ulcers. We can use all these wonderful drugs and supplements all day long, but if you don't change the overall management of the horse, the reason why the ulcers started in the first place, then they're going to keep coming back and it will be just an ongoing problem. So there are other things that they will utilize. It's everything.


Katy Starr (27:19):

That's a great point. Yeah. Well thank you and thank you for all those management tips. I think those are all some really great ideas that, I mean, don't wait for your horse to have an issue. Let's try to be proactive rather than reactive if we can help it. So Dr. Cubitt, what are a few key takeaways that you would like to leave us with about the topic of leaky gut?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (27:43):

I'd say one of the classic signs would be chronic diarrhea that you just don't seem to be able to fix. If you're noticing your horses going off their grain, but they're eating their hay, that's another early sign that, ooh, we might want to do something before we get to a point where, just like you said, be proactive, not reactive. We don't want to get to a point where a horse has just completely gone off all food because they're so uncomfortable. Utilizing forage. I know we work with Standlee and we have premium forage products, but ultimately it's utilizing fibers, a variety of different fibers. The power is in the most, it's the most important ingredient in your horse's diet. It doesn't matter what your horse does. If your horse is a racehorse, then we find fiber sources that are really high in calories in protein. If your horse is a trail horse, that is an easy keeper. We find fiber sources that are lower in calories, but ultimately the actual fiber and the diversity in fiber is still important, whether it be a racehorse or a trail horse. So working with your veterinarian, working with us to find the fibers that work the best for your horse, but reach out before it's too late, start trying to address this before it is a disaster.


Katy Starr (29:06):

Right, right. That's hard to come back from. Well, thank you Dr. Cubitt. This has been a very interesting conversation for me today. I know that I've learned a lot and hopefully our listeners feel like they've learned a lot as well.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (29:21):

You were worried we wouldn't fill 30 minutes. You know, you and I can fill hours upon hours.


Katy Starr (29:27):

We like to talk a little bit.


Dr. Tana Cubitt (29:29):

It’s such a fascinating topic. It is on all levels, just even outside of horses. I mean, I have cattle. I had a cow, a steer that banged his hindquarter and got this giant abscess and lost a bunch of weight and the first thing that came to my mind was, oh, I need to improve his immune system so that he can gain a bunch of weight and get back to where he should have been. So I was putting all kinds of probiotics and prebiotics in his food. The vet fixed the abscess and I had to fix his gut. So it's something I think about all the time, the dog's licking his leg. Oh, what can I add to the diet? Because he's obviously got some kind of allergy going on.


Katy Starr (30:09):

So that's so, so interesting. I'm looking forward to future discussions we have on microbiome and the gut and all those interesting things that are going on in current research. So before we close out this episode, we just wanted to talk a little bit about how much we appreciate all of you, our listeners, and how important it is for us to be able to have this connection with you, share this information, and hopefully information that you find is useful. And if you have the opportunity, if you listen on Apple or if you listen on Spotify, we'd really, really appreciate you sharing a rating and review. This helps other people discover what we're sharing and it really proves what we're doing is helpful and useful for everyone. Right, Dr. Cubitt?


Dr. Tana Cubitt (30:57):

Absolutely. I myself fall into this trap and usually I don't write a review unless it was something terrible happened. That's a write a review, right? That is classic. That's why most of us write reviews. But ultimately, just to be super transparent, we really need reviews because there are people out there that may not have heard our podcast before, but they're going to read your reviews and that's going to drive them to want to listen. And we need your support, we need your help. We really would love to have a wider audience listening so that we can prove to our higher ups that we're worth it, keeping us on the payroll. So , yeah, if you have a chance to do a review, we'd really, really appreciate it.


Katy Starr (31:41):

And I actually thought it might be fun for us to share reviews that we get on our episodes. So you know, you might get a shout out if you put up a review on our podcast. And so today's review that I want to share is from Connie in Colorado, and she shares “Great nutrition podcast. I love listening to this podcast. Dr. Cubitt's knowledge is so valuable, and I appreciate how she speaks to scientific facts about nutrition in a way that makes it easy to follow and fun to learn about.” Dr. Cubitt, you hear that you're fun!


Dr. Tana Cubitt (32:15):

Thank you, Connie. That makes me tear up because that is what I, in my whole career, I have strived to do, is take the science but make anybody be able to understand it from a 4-H pony clubber to a person that just loves their horse to a veterinarian. Everybody needs to be able to understand nutrition and I think everybody wants to. Thank you, Connie.


Katy Starr (32:39):

Absolutely. . Thank you, all of our listeners, for being here with us. And until the next episode, Dr. Cubitt, thanks for being here today.


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