Ep. 110: When to Call the Vet – What Horse Owners Need to Know About Equine Emergencies with Dr. Erica Lacher

Episode Notes

On this episode of the Beyond the Barn podcast, host Katy Starr chats with Dr. Erica Lacher, equine veterinarian and host of Straight from the Horse Doctor’s Mouth, to help horse owners confidently decide when something is an emergency and they need to call the vet or monitor at home, including:

• Why one specific type of injury is never a “wait and see” situation
• An old wives tale that is commonly suggested for colic, but doesn’t actually help
• Two vital signs your vet wants you to know before you ever pick up the phone

Dr. Lacher also shares practical first-aid kit must-haves and so much more to help you feel confident in knowing what to do when an equine emergency hits, because its often not ‘if’ but ‘when’ with horses.

🎧 Listen now on the Beyond the Barn podcast

Have a topic idea or feedback to share? We want to connect with you! Email podcast@standlee.com

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Episode References – 

~10:49 – How to Check Vital Signs On Your Horse

~23:32 – Equine Emergency Vet Care Guide

~ 26:04 – How to Take Photos for Your Equine Vet

~52:37 – Foaling Kit Guideline from AAEP

~1:01:26 – How to Weigh Your Horse

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*Views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Standlee Premium Products, LLC.*

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Connect with Dr. Lacher:

• Springhill Equine Veterinary Clinic
• Straight from the Horse Doctor’s Mouth Podcast
• YouTube
• Facebook
• Instagram
• TikTok

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Read full episode transcript

Katy Starr (00:00:01):

Hi, I'm Katy Starr and you're listening to Beyond the Barn. Join me on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition myths and sit down with some of the most intriguing experts from across the country. We'll also take you behind the scenes of how premium western quality forage is grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. I'm so glad you're here.

 

Katy Starr (00:00:27):

Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn. Today we're joined by Dr. Erica Lacher, an equine veterinarian, author, blogger, podcaster, and longtime horse owner herself. She is a 2001 graduate of the University of Florida's College of Veterinary Medicine and the owner of Springhill Equine Veterinary Clinic in Newbury, Florida. Host of the podcast Straight from the Horse Doctor's Mouth, she has a real passion for helping horse owners make better, more confident decisions between practicing medicine and competing in show jumping and educating horse owners around the world, she brings such a practical and grounded perspective to today's topic about equine emergencies. So, Dr. Lacher, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:01:15):

Thank you for having me. It's a joy.

 

Katy Starr (00:01:17):

Yes. And so just want to remind our listeners before we get started, any of the topics that we cover on the Beyond the Barn Podcast are more generalized and not specific to any individual horse or any specific situation. So, be sure to always work with your veterinarian and nutritionist before making any drastic changes to your horse's feed program. You can always reach out to us and talk with our PhD equine nutritionist on any specifics that you'd like to know as well. So, Dr. Lacher, why don't you get us started today and just tell us a little bit about where you grew up and your background with horses.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:01:53):

. I grew up in the middle of the city in St. Petersburg, Florida. And my mom had had horses when she was a kid. And so her present to herself when she became a CPA, so an accountant, was that we got a horse and that was when I was five years old.

 

Katy Starr (00:02:10):

Oh, awesome.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:02:11):

And so I grew up on two and a half acres in the city, which I thought was huge and really bombed around with horses in the backyard, for a really long time. And then I started getting into showing Appaloosas a little bit more. No Appaloosa jokes. I hear them out there. No, no, no, no, no.

 

Katy Starr (00:02:30):

Yep. .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:02:31):

I started showing them when I was 15, 16 and did that until college when I started I switched over to a hunter jumpers and that's where I've been ever since.

 

Katy Starr (00:02:41):

That is so awesome.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:02:42):

I've owned horses kind of that whole time. And now I live in a very tiny house on top of a barn .

 

Katy Starr (00:02:49):

Ah, nice. And so you kind of got horses when you were five, but what kind of inspired your path to become an equine veterinarian? Were you one of those girls growing up where you always wanted to be a veterinarian or how did that work out for you?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:03:04):

I think I wanted to be a firefighter briefly. And then I switched over to veterinarian somewhere around six and just kept on that path and nothing took me off. Right. So, I experimented with a lot of different things. I spent a lot of time in the human hospital in Gainesville when I was in undergrad, volunteering in theradiology department, you know, so I was around human medicine, I was around horse trainers, . I was around, you know, a lot of the different aspects of horses and with my parents as accountants, the business world. And nothing pulled me from that track. And if anything, it just kept pushing me more towards the track of being a veterinarian. In vet school, we have to rotate through everything. Right. And I realized pretty quickly I hate working inside.

 

Katy Starr (00:03:51):

That's good, yeah. , so you're like, Hmm, I'm probably going to go more the large animal direction, .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:03:57):

And I love dogs and cats. I could probably be considered a bit of a crazy cat lady, but I don't know how youlike hold them and they have teeth and claws and I mostly just like to pet them and tell them how cute they are and how wonderful they are. Yeah. and I feel the same way about my horses, but I know how to manage horses . Yeah.

 

Katy Starr (00:04:14):

Yep. But you know, it's also so good that it did take you down that path. I mean, we'll talk more about this later, but like with your podcast, I think you help a lot of horse owners and just knowing that we don't have as many large animal veterinarians out there, there is a shortage in the industry. And so it's so great that you have been able to take that path and be able to help so many horse owners.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:04:39):

Yeah. It's definitely much more of a lifestyle than a a job for sure. But as we all know, horses are in your blood.

 

Katy Starr (00:04:46):

So, what would you say that you probably love most about being an equine veterinarian?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:04:51):

This was shocking to me as I have kind of done my career over the years. If you had asked 22-year-old Erica, what would be the most amazing part? It would be working on the athletes and keeping them happy and functional. And that is amazing. And it's super cool to see a horse with something wrong and then use our brain and our diagnostics and get to the answer. And I do enjoy that. But the absolute best part of my job, and again this is shocking to me, but is the long-term relationships I have. You know, like I have horses at this point in my career that I've birthed and now you know, we're looking, they're in their twenties and I can know that the decisions that I made when that horse was five, to help that owner make their life the very best we could are now giving us a really happy retirement for that horse that is more fulfilling than anything else I do. And again, I found that a little surprising ,

 

Katy Starr (00:05:51):

That is such a cool full circle moment for you, I think, in your career. How amazing is that? To be able to, to see when they were just little to now, they're kind of starting to hit their senior years. That's really awesome.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:06:03):

And we won't talk about my senior years. Just horses.

 

Katy Starr (00:06:05):

. No, no. . . That's so awesome. I love that. Okay, so as I kind of got started in the episode, our main topic for today we're going to be talking about is equine emergencies, which I think is going to be so helpful for our listeners. This is something that every horse owner has probably experienced at one point or another, whether that be a full blown emergency or maybe you know, a little bit of the lesser level. But it's something that we should all be paying attention to being prepared for because I think the more prepared we are the better, when we get to that kind of an instance, we feel a little bit calmer and ready to be able to handle it well.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:06:48):

We all know horses like calm because they react well when we're freaking out . Right,

 

Katy Starr (00:06:53):

Right. . Absolutely true. Okay, so why don't you tell us what does emergency really mean in equine care and how is that different from something that you can monitor at home or kind of schedule as a non-urgent vet visit?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:07:10):

For me, the big emergencies in horses are not eating combined with extreme discomfort. And so, you know, we've all experienced the mild colic and we're sort of like, eh, what do I do? We can talk about that in a moment, but without a doubt, if your horse is not interested in food and they're showing discomfort and that can be laying down, standing up, you know, like you are looking at your horse and you know your horse better than anyone else and you are saying, my horse is uncomfortable. That is an emergency for sure. The other thing that we look out for absolute no doubt emergencies are can they breathe, you know, the asthma horses in particular, Standee is my go-to for how I manage a lot of those, that's for sure.

 

Katy Starr (00:07:56):

Awesome. I love that.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:07:57):

Thank you Standlee for all of your variety of hay products. Oh my goodness. But you know, if those horses are struggling to breathe, that's an absolute emergency. And then from there, my other rules, and this one sometimes surprises people, eyeball's always an emergency. I want to talk to you if you think there is anything wrong with your horse's eye, I don't care how minor it is, and anything that is even the tiniest cut from the knees and the hocks down.

 

Katy Starr (00:08:24):

Okay. So, as we kind of dive more into this episode, one thing that I think would be cool and helpful for us to understand is what is one thing that you wish every horse owner knew about emergencies that most don't until something bad does happen?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:08:42):

I think that most owners second guess themselves way too often. You know, you're looking at your horse and you're like, especially colics, you say, I think they're not right. Like I think they don't feel good, but I'm not, 100%. And you know, like I, I don't ever doubt my owners with their horses because they know their horses far better than I do. And I would rather treat the colic. The moment you notice something than later it becomes life threatening. And you know, we'll have those where the owners will say, yeah, they weren't quite right yesterday, but I thought it would be all right. And we don't mind talking to you. We never mind talking to you. We want to have that conversation and say let's talk about it. Let me hear what you have going on. Let's have a strategy for what's happening and if we feel like you know, these are the parameters where we're going to escalate it to, I'll be out there as soon as I can get to your house. So, I think that owners second guessing that and being afraid to talk to us and we would way rather talk to you and manage it at 3:00 PM than 3:00 AM.

 

Katy Starr (00:09:50):

Yes. Yes. And I don't know if, if everybody feels this way or not, but also maybe thinking that just because they have to call and talk to you doesn't necessarily mean that you will have to come to them or wherever. It's just like you being able to have a conversation, kind of figuring out what's going on, the symptoms, what they're seeing and observing. If it's not as big a deal as maybe they thought it was, then you can probably instruct them from there as to what to do. And then it wouldn't even require you to come out versus they waited too long. You definitely need to come out. It's three in the morning and then it just probably makes it a little bit more challenging. I'm sure.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:10:28):

It does. The other thing I would love from everyone when they call me is their horse's vital signs. So, is temperature, heart rate, and respiratory rate is great, but mostly I want temperature and heart rate. And I would like to have, if they have gut sounds, you know, can we get sort of a basic overall of your horse. We have a great video for that on our YouTube channel over at Springhill Equine on YouTube.

 

Katy Starr (00:10:53):

Excellent. You know, I'll be sure to find that and link that in our show notes so they can reference it, especially since it's in video form. Okay. So, why don't we talk about some of the most common real life scenarios, emergencies that we kind of experience as horse owners. We'll go through a few of these and then I'd love for you to qualify it either as, let's talk about it as like emergency, urgent, or non-urgent. And then you can kind of help us sort through which ones are actually true emergencies and kind of how we work through that. Okay. So, you've talked a little bit about it, but for colic, what early signs do horse owners often miss and when should they absolutely call the vet versus keeping an eye on them and walking it out?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:11:39):

Step one, never walk it out. That's an old wives tale. it, it doesn't help anything.

 

Katy Starr (00:11:44):

That's good to know.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:11:45):

I have seen more marital disputes with tired spouses and a tired horse from walking.

 

Katy Starr (00:11:52):

I can see that

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:11:54):

It makes everybody tired and it, it doesn't actually help much. So, step one, don't walk. Let them lay down. I always say, you know, if you're not feeling great, what do you want to do? You want to lay on the couch under the covers and and watch bad tv. Right? And your horse wants to do the same. So, for me, one of the big things that people often miss or they recognize but they don't put enough emphasis on it is again, we know our horses. So, your horse is laying in the field at 10:00 AM but nap time is normally 9:00 AM and so that's unusual and we just sort of look at it and go, yep, laying down, good to go. That's the moment for me when I'm going to go out and check on that horse and say, how you doing? At that moment they may very well be interested in food.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:12:40):

We all know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. But you can often lead a horse to soup and convince them that they would love some soup. That's the moment when we can take those early horses and say, are you interested in in getting a little bit of hydration? Because one of my other sayings is, dilution is a solution to pollution and that works for colics as well. . So, yeah, over hydration is important and often in the early stages you can get that. So, recognizing that you know your horse's behaviors and when they're off, that's often a very early sign of colic when we can intervene and we can manage them pretty quickly. It's also a great time to get that TPR because maybe your horse's temperature is elevated and then we're going to go a different direction.

 

Katy Starr (00:13:27):

So, for colic, this is something, if something seems off that is a colic type of scenario, there's in your mind would you say probably not necessarily like non-urgent but it might be like urgent emergency status would you say?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:13:45):

That is, I want to talk to you and that's, you know, yeah we may be giving some of the anti-inflammatories, you know like think Banamine, Bute, one of those sorts of drugs. We may be doing that but I would love to at least have a conversation with you. So, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm coming out. It means let's definitely have a conversation in that scenario when horses are acting off on their behavior like that, let's always give me a call like you got 15, 20 minutes to monitor them and just see how things go. But after that I really want to hear from you and see you know, what's going on.

 

Katy Starr (00:14:22):

Excellent. Okay. And so when they call and it does turn out to be, you need to get out there and see them. What's the best thing a horse owner can do in a colic situation? And maybe it might be dependent on the scenario right andthe details, but from like a little bit higher level, what are some things that the horse owner can do? I'm guessing probably take some vital signs for you, but what can they do to help you get ready?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:14:45):

Well the number one thing is making sure that I have an area that preferably has electricity though that's becoming less important with advances in ultrasound technology. But if I could have someplace that has light and water, I would be so happy. For the horse side of things, I try to put them someplace safe and quiet. So, typically that means can we get them into a stall where if they want to lay down and lay quietly, that's fine. The only time that I am walking horses is if they are being very violent and those are horses I promise you I have the pedal to the metal and I am trying to get to you as fast as I can. Those are the horses I really worry about that is, you know, I don't think that many of us doubt, but that's the moment when you call and then put the halter on.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:15:31):

So, that is us driving to you as fast as we can get there. And oftentimes we're trying to walk them to make sure that they aren't, you know, it's a horse, they're going to roll into the fence if given the option. Right. So, it's more trying to keep them safe than it is about them rolling. You know, the urban legend or I guess the rural legend if we're talking about horses that when they roll they're going to twist their intestines and it's actually, they twist their intestines first. It's due to the many, many design flaws in the equine GI tract. But they twist their intestine first and then they're painful so they're rolling. The rolling doesn't make it worse.

 

Katy Starr (00:16:10):

So, that's why they're rolling. They're actually trying to untwist it themself but it's already been twisted.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:16:16):

Yeah.

 

Katy Starr (00:16:17):

Oh that is interesting. See we went through a colic incident a couple years ago, so as I'm talking to you about this, I'm thinking about what we were doing and things like that. And you say to like, let them lay because they want to rest and that makes sense. Like I totally understand that from how I would feel. But if they do start rolling, it's best to get a halter on them and then you'll be coming out probably to be able to see them in person.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:16:43):

Correct. And again, what we're trying to do is, you know, if there a lot of them, even the, the moderately painful ones will kind of lay down, lay on their side sort of half roll stand up, do it again on the other side, right? Yeah, I'm okay allowing that to happen. It's the super painful ones that are just throwing themselves. Yes.

 

Katy Starr (00:17:02):

Yep, yep. Seen that. And so we also know that colic can be caused by so many things, but what are some more common things that you have seen quite frequently that you're like if we just did some simple things like this, it could actually minimize colic very significantly.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:17:21):

Now I'm not going to say this because this is the Standlee podcast, but making the base of your horse's diet high quality roughage means you do not see me for colics. So, I have a client, he's ugh, this makes me feel old. He is actually now retired from the horse business but in the entire time that I saw him, I never saw colic out there. So, I can say it now because he's retired, doesn't have horses anymore. But I never saw a colic out there and it's because the basis of his nutritional program was really, really, really high quality hay. Most of those horses were on alfalfa. The ones who weren't, they were on straight alfalfa. The rest were on some combination of timothy or orchard in alfalfa. But that was the basis. And then they only got enough concentrate to supplement what they were lacking from that. And he is always my poster child. I'm like this is what good quality roughage does for you. And I understand that good quality forage can be expensive but a visit for me in an unscheduled fashion is also expensive and colic surgery is really, really expensive.

 

Katy Starr (00:18:35):

Not to mention like what you have to go through mentally and emotionally through an experience like that too.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:18:41):

Yeah, our emotional trauma cannot be discounted .

 

Katy Starr (00:18:44):

Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. Especially when it's like when there's such an important part of your life. I mean the relationship that people have with their horses, it's rough if you have to go through an experience like that for sure.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:18:58):

So, good quality roughage and then you know, the boring stuff, good quality preventative care, making sure that they get dental floats on a regular basis along with a good lighted sedated oral exam to make sure that they're chewing that good quality roughage appropriately. You know, the GI tract of the horse doesn't love it when that roughage gets back there and it's too long. It can be a little bit persnickety about that. So, making sure they get that on a regular basis and then regular vaccines, that doesn't necessarily contribute but I think it's more that you're setting them up for a good overall place. The other thing we like to recommend is that we do once yearly fecal parasite checks. So, we do for our area that is typically, well Florida can be so variable with its weather but spring. So, you know, if you're someplace where it gets truly cold and it stays that way as the weather's warming up as you're starting to see the grass grow, that is a great time to check fecal egg counts and see are parasites even contributing. Lots of people like to think they are, but oftentimes they aren't. And so if parasites are not contributing to a colic issue that you have, then it's important to look elsewhere to see is there something else in my program that truly is the problem.

 

Katy Starr (00:20:12):

Yeah, excellent. One other thing that, and I only say this because of the nutrition episodes that we've talked about with some of these on the impaction colic side, making sure that your horse is drinking water and getting that in there because I think that can also contribute a lot to an instance like that. And that's something that, I mean like you said, you, you can lay a horse to water, you can't make them drink. But at the same time, if you know that they have a tendency not to, at least you can look for ways and try to find some methods for getting your horse. Especially in the winter. Because I think some people don't really think about that as much. They don't really think about their horse can get dehydrated, but it can happen and we definitely don't want to increase the risk of that.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:20:55):

And it's also a good time to just briefly touch on making sure your water is okay. So, in the winter, thank goodness not in Florida, but making sure that there isn't too much ice on it and they can get to it. , I don't know how you guys up north handle that. I'm not so good at that , but in the summer in Florida it's making sure the water isn't too hot. Like who wants to go up and drink, you know, 95 degree water. Like hmm, delicious.

 

Katy Starr (00:21:23):

Yeah. So, fresh clean water. Yeah,

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:21:25):

Looking at those options as well to make sure that your horse is able to appropriately consume water. So, it's, you know, it's not fancy stuff, it's definitely not supplements, it's definitely not anything that is advertised to you as you know, the magical cure. It's good quality basics that keep us from coming to see colics.

 

Katy Starr (00:21:45):

Excellent. Okay, so our next one for bleeding. When should horse owners be concerned about bleeding?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:21:53):

shockingly infrequently. . 

 

Katy Starr (00:21:56):

Okay good. That's good!

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:21:57):

Not saying I'm not coming. You know, I'm, I'm going to be there. We're going to put it back together but for the most part horses can lose a gallon of blood. That's a lot of blood.

 

Katy Starr (00:22:09):

Yeah. I mean they're big animals so I guess I could see how they could probably manage that better than maybe like a human or something.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:22:16):

And if you think about like what a gallon of blood looks like, it looks like the worst murder scene in a slasher flick you've ever seen. Right? Like it's a lot of blood. Yeah, I can see that.

 

Katy Starr (00:22:27):

,

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:22:28):

I saw the best demonstration once and it was somebody on like white steps, you know, it was like concrete steps in front of someplace and they took 10 cc's of blood, so a very small amount of blood, they put it in a cup of water and they threw it down the stairs and you would've thought someone died. You know? So, that's the thing about blood is it is very overwhelming to us. But like I said, luckily, I mean they have so many flaws. Horses I love them but my goodness , they can lose a lot of blood. So, typically if I've got a wound and it is bleeding profusely, my favorite go-to bandage is a diaper. And then getting creative with your standing wraps or your sport boots, you know, whatever you've got around to hold that diaper where it needs to be. Duct tape is your friend.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:23:12):

I personally love Gorilla tape. I wish they would sponsor me , but anything you can do to put pressure on that area and typically they'll come around and again, I'm headed your way, I'm going to fix whatever that was. Right. But I worry less about the blood and more about the location. We have an app called the Equine Emergency Vet Care Guide and in that we have pictures to show you. These are the areas that we really worry about horses and for the most part it's below the knee and the hock to be honest. And the reason is, speaking of design flaws, they keep their joints super near the surface and their joints do not handle being open to the outside world very well. We say that we have 12 hours to manage that. So, if we think about a horse who's been turned out in the evening and we find them in the morning, we're in trouble.

 

Katy Starr (00:24:04):

That's cutting it close. Yeah, for sure.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:24:06):

Yeah. So, I worry much more about location than I do blood and I think that's one of the surprising things sometimes to owners is I'm like yeah it's a giant wound on the, you know, the hindquarters or you know when they love to run into something with their chest and they have these giant wounds, those do fantastic and like I said, yes absolutely I'm on my way, I'm going to stitch them back together and reupholster things but we're going to be okay. I had a horse, career ending injury and I'm still shocked this owner found it. It was a pinhole puncture wound on his right hind pastern, that went into the joint.

 

Katy Starr (00:24:45):

Really? Yes.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:24:47):

Wow. Yeah and it was a dark bay horse so I'm still like, I don't know how he found it.

 

Katy Starr (00:24:51):

That is amazing. Yeah.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:24:53):

He brought his horse in in the morning and he said, Hmm, something's not right. Went over him, found this little tiny wound on his pastern. We had him on the table at the surgery referral hospital within an hour and a half flushing it and unfortunately the joint was infected, they got it under control but he developed career-ending arthritis in that joint. So, that's horses.

 

Katy Starr (00:25:16):

Yeah that is, that is in a nutshell there. There's horses for you . Gosh that's crazy. And so, I mean you gave a helpful hint there. I'm now realizing my children have over the last two, three years kind of worked their way out of diapers, but I'm like, I should probably maybe just have a small pack here on hand just in case.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:25:37):

You should always have diapers. They have a million uses

 

Katy Starr (00:25:41):

. That is excellent. So, aside from that, is there anything else that you would add that a horse owner can do to help you while you're on your way? Or does that kind of cover it?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:25:50):

For most of those, again, I'm going to age myself here, but the first time I had a camera on my cell phone I was like why do I need this? And now I'm like how did I live without this? So, sending me pictures and again on the equine emergency vet care guide also on our YouTube channel we have a video of how to take pictures . Because I'd love a closeup one and then I'd like a far away one. So, based on that location, I'm probably going to tell you to start hosing. Because again remember dilution is a solution to pollution and that works here as well. So, water is very rarely the wrong answer. So, I get my owners, if we've got the bleeding under control, we're going to start cold hosing that area and I'll have them just running water until I get there. It helps remove debris, it helps remove bacteria. There's nothing wrong with water once you've sent me a picture, but like I said, chances are good. I'm going to tell you go ahead. If the wound is you find it and the wound is disgusting, you know, because horses, you can go ahead and start hosing, you'll be fine.

 

Katy Starr (00:26:50):

Excellent. Okay, so you talked a little bit about this for the bleeding one, but for puncture wounds, how would you, and I know, see I'm learning as we go because you, you're saying it's more location right rather than what it is. So, how do you differentiate between a cut that you can clean and kind of monitor yourself versus one that might need your intervention? I mean we were talking about around joints, tendons and then earlier you mentioned about around the eye as well.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:27:18):

Yeah, so it is one of those, I know it sounds crazy but send me a picture. That's where all of us as veterinarians, we would much rather talk to you in this scenario and be like, oh that's okay because it is far easier for me to tell you that everything from the knee and the hock down has potential than to point out there's like six inches of real estate on the front hind leg where you're safe. Right? So, , yeah, it is very difficult for me. So, I often am like, you know what, send me a picture of that one and then we'll talk like everywhere around the knee and the hock is joint, there's just joint all over the place. The foot, the coffin joint pops up all over, you know like when I'm injecting a coffin joint, I'm putting a needle in maybe half an inch on the very front. It's also got a spot on the side where it comes really close on the back we've got a tendon sheath that comes down. So, you know, that's where I'm like, send me that picture because that's going to be key to where we go from here. And then I'll probably have you start hosing.

 

Katy Starr (00:28:18):

And so for eye injuries, obviously this can be a big concern for horse owners, but how much of an emergency is this type of situation? This is kind of how you started the episode. This was one of the things you mentioned - eyes.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:28:31):

Yep. It's funny, you know when I talk to owners on a regular basis, they worry about colics, veterinarians worry about eyes

 

Katy Starr (00:28:39):

Interesting.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:28:40):

And part of it is my location in the hot muggy south we grow fungus like nobody's business and horse eyes are uniquely susceptible to fungus. So, eyelid lacerations, so you know where they go up to the water bucket and somehow manage to tear their eyelid on the water bucket hook because why not, those we need to get sutured relatively quickly. Like we have about eight to 10 hours before the tissue gets really wonky. We can still put them back together but we want that eyelid margin back normal because if not we create some defects that change the way the tear film comes in and out of the eye. And so the tear film just isn't right. And so that can be irritating. It also means they don't flush debris out of their eyes normally. And so those horses are more susceptible to ulcers. So, definitely eyelid lacerations.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:29:32):

But if I walk out and I've got a horse that is suddenly really squinty on an eye, they've got a lot of tearing coming from it and I'm not sure I as a veterinarian am going to come see that horse tonight on emergency. Ifyou can see the eye, one of the things that we're looking for is do we see any areas that have like a bluish or a whitish tint to them? You can often, the hardest part about this is horse eyelids are unbelievably strong. I don't know how they can slam an eyelid shut on you for sure. But what we're going to try to do is with the eye open, I move their head sort of back and forth and what I'm trying to do is catch the light glare and watch it go across the eye and you can often get an idea of do we have a problem in the cornea?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:30:23):

Because you know that light should be a solid line as it comes across and you'll see that there's a defect in the cornea where it's not reflecting properly. And that's a big deal for me in Florida. I am going to get you treating that eye tonight with an antibacterial and probably an antifungal as well. And I'm going to have you give a weight appropriate dose of bute or banamine to that horse and we're going to get it on the schedule for the next morning. Again, based on the conversation, if there's a certain level to it, I promise you I'm coming out tonight like I'm worried about it. And if you don't have medications, I am absolutely coming out tonight.

 

Katy Starr (00:31:03):

And we'll talk more about this later about our first aid kit, what we should have on hand. And so as we listen to this episode, this is something if you don't have put together it might be good to do now. So, again, if you get yourself into an emergency situation, you're ready to go and you're as best as prepared as you can be to make everything, just get back to where it was as quickly as possible.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:31:27):

There's basically neosporin for eyes, it's a triple antibiotic ointment and it's that one is never wrong. The issue is that there is also versions made that have steroid in them. So, when you're having your vet out for a regular appointment, it's a great time to be like, you know, do I have eye ointment and if I do, which one is safe and which one is I must talk to you. So, I draw like big X's on the one with steroid and I'm like, you have to talk to me before this one goes in the eye.

 

Katy Starr (00:31:56):

Before using that one. Good. Okay, that is so good to know.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:32:00):

Yeah, you can always put triple antibiotic in no problem as long as it doesn't have steroid in and I always say put the triple antibiotic in then call me .

 

Katy Starr (00:32:09):

Yes. Excellent. Okay, so anything else that we should let horse owners know about eye injuries? They got to send you a picture, the triple Neosporin type. And is there anything else that horse owners can kind of do to help prep before you get there?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:32:24):

This is a long-term prep before I get there, but this is one of the reasons that I tell you that your horse should probably be insured . So, the eyes, like I said, if you ask veterinarians, owners are scared about colics, veterinarians are scared about eyes because I can very quickly have them go bad even with everything being done properly by every party involved.

 

Katy Starr (00:32:47):

Yeah, for sure.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:32:48):

So, consider insurance .

 

Katy Starr (00:32:50):

Okay, so now for fevers, what temperature, duration, other signs push a fever that is kind of like into that emergency territory.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:33:00):

For most horses. This is also I think a little surprising and as a parent, you probably know this too, it's, often surprising where pediatricians are like me, it's all right . Yeah, we're going to, I know I love, we're going to keep an eye on it .

 

Katy Starr (00:33:12):

I'm like okay, I trust you .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:33:14):

And that's for horses, a straight up fever with no other real symptoms. So, normal temperature on a horse is up to around 101°F. This is a great thing to know what's normal for your horse. So, if your horse is typically running 97°F, 98°F and they're up at 101°F, I might, you might have a low fever going on, but we're going to keep an eye on things and even up to one about 102.5°F, I'm going to say check in with me, but we're going to keep an eye on that and we may not even treat it. Over 102.5°F, we are going to have a conversation and if there are any other symptoms going along with the fever. Fevers are one of those things that owners will often call us and say, I think my horse is colicing and it's that their horse is in the back of the stall. They're just standing out in the field and they're being dumpy.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:34:04):

And again, this is why TPRs are important. If you can call me with a temperature and say, Hey, my horse has a 103.5°F, then we have a whole different conversation that's going to go on. Most of the time for us fevers are, let's talk about it, we're probably going to have you give a weight appropriate dose of a a non-steroidal like bute or banamine and we're going to see what happens. Typical one we had last week, the horse went to a show the weekend before, so we're about five days out from an event. The horse is being dumpy in the stall. Owner takes a temperature, it's 103.5°F. So, we got that horse on to just twice a day non-steroidal and off it went and we didn't need to see it. We will sometimes end up seeing those horses and when we do, we do a respiratory swab where we put a, you know the swab up the nose kind of deal.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:34:55):

They don't love it anymore than we do. And then we'll see if we have viruses that we need to worry about. Where we're going to do that in particular is if that horse is in a big barn. So, you know, like this horse had himself and his two other friends, they were a pretty isolated farm so we weren't terribly worried about exposure to other horses and we were willing to saylet's see what happens. And this horse was, you know, he came back around a normal, if we're talking about a boarding or a show barn situation where we have a lot of exposure, we're a little bit faster to say let's get on the schedule for tomorrow for a respiratory swab and just make sure we don't have any bad diseases. If we have other symptoms like that horse is not mentally appropriate or you're noticing that that horse, this is the way that owners typically notice mild neurologic symptoms. You bring them out of the stall and they whack their feet on the front of the stall and they'll whack all four, you'll turn the corner and maybe they catch the wall on one side of their hip and you're like, that's, that's unusual. That is a much bigger deal. So, if we have other symptoms along with a fever, that's an emergency phone call asap.

 

Katy Starr (00:36:07):

And you have mentioned this a couple of times in this episode about vital signs and we've talked about this a little bit on our podcast about how don't wait until emergency to take those vital signs. You should be doing it ahead of time, like you mentioned to know what is your horse's normal? Because if 101°F is kind of the normal average for a horse, it doesn't necessarily mean it might be your horse's normal. So, making sure that we're taking those vital signs, not just once but every so often, getting those vital signs so then when an emergency comes up you can be like, this is definitely not normal for my horse.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:36:47):

Exactly. And I, and every vet I know is happy to show you how to do those at routine appointments. This is again why it's a great idea to have your veterinarian out depending on your area once or twice a year for vaccines and to go over this sort of thing on a non-emergency basis. Like how the heck do I find a heart rate on this guy? And some horsescan be tough, their heart rates can be so low that it's easy to double count . So, that's why I will always, always, always teach you how to do vital signs on your horse.

 

Katy Starr (00:37:16):

Excellent. That is so great. And so on the fever side, is there anything that would be helpful for ahorse owner to do? You know, while you're getting it figured out, especially if you are on the way because there might be something else going on.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:37:31):

If there's high fevers going on, just like humans, we can give them a a bath to help try and bring things down. Evaporation helps reduce temperatures. And then the other thing that I'm going to look at is can I have the vaccine history for that horse if maybe they're not a regular client of ours or they've just purchased this horse, I want to like to know what their vaccine history is, are they up to date on everything? And I'd like to have a little bit of history. So, again, like that other horse, that's a typical scenario. They went to an event five to seven days ago. Much like children, you know they , they like to go catch things from their friends.

 

Katy Starr (00:38:06):

Yes. They're so good at sharing those .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:38:08):

Yes, they really are aren't they? And then, you know, the other thing that I want to look at is start to think about in the barn, what can I do to isolate this horse because we want to try to keep this horse kid from sharing with all the other horse kids. And so if we can do that, we're going to try to see like what can we do in this barn to isolate this horse away from the others. From there, you know like certainly like I said, other symptoms. So, if we have a lot of greenish or yellow nasal discharge, you know, that's a whole different deal we're looking at. We're now worried about things like strangles, other respiratory infections that can cause that. And so, you know, we're hardcore on quarantine at that point, but for that horse that is relatively normal but has a fever and we've made the decision, we're on the way getting some of that information for us. And then looking at what can I do to do some quarantine procedures in the barn.

 

Katy Starr (00:39:00):

Excellent. So, for lameness, when does a limp kind of become, ah, I really need to call the vet now? Kind of a situation.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:39:08):

For us, alimp at the walk where they are toe touching. So, I think basically non-weightbearing, they don't want to touch it. And I will tell you most of the time I would say probably above 95% this is an abscess . One of the things I always joke is that we need like congratulations, it's an abscess cards hallmark does not make those. I don't know why.

 

Katy Starr (00:39:32):

What?! Come on now Hallmark, get it together. .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:39:35):

But rarely it's something way worse. And I operate unfortunately on the way worse side of things. But you know, even then I'll tell you in 20 some years of practicing, 95% of them have been abscesses but a few of them have in fact been broken legs or infected joints from potentially wounds that we didn't notice because...

 

Katy Starr (00:39:57):

Right, because they're the size of a pinhole. .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:39:58):

. Yeah, exactly. Or other bad things that horses do. But in general that limp is going to be an abscess but on the off chance it's not I'm going to headyour way for a lameness at the walk. That is, we call those grade five if we have a lameness scale that's one to five and five is non-weight bearing or just barely toe touching.

 

Katy Starr (00:40:19):

Okay, excellent. So, what actually helps you from a horse owner perspective to kind of prep ahead of time, especially if it is on that non-weightbearing side of things to kind of get you ready, prepared, feeling like you're set up to help take care of that horse.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:40:34):

If possible. And some of these horses do not want to do this without pain management but trying to get that horse again into the area that has light, electricity, water, the comforts of life so that it makes it just a little bit easier for us to work on those. If that's not possible because the horse is not okay with that, without pain management on board, then it's likely, I am going to say you can go ahead and give, you know, bute or banamine or something similar so that we can get things going the right direction from a pain management standpoint. But if that horse is willing, we're going to try to bring them closer into the barn or you know, light et cetera. If they're not then it's figuring out is there a way for me to get there and you know the horse is going to pick the worst spot to do that. Yeah. So, sometimes it's like do we need to round up the four wheeler or the side by side? Like do we need to be ready to try to figure out how to transport what we need to the horse because we can't get them closer to light and electricity. So, looking at those, those things in your environment would be super helpful before we got there.

 

Katy Starr (00:41:38):

Excellent. And I know some of the things that can cause like a lameness issue are not preventable because it, it just happens . But for any cases that you've seen, are there any situations where there has been something where like it would be a good idea to do this or don't do this type of a thing?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:41:56):

Regular farrier care is the number one thing that prevents abscesses to be honest. And I mean some horses are prone to them, right? It doesn't take them all out of the picture. But regular quality trims, typically that's somewhere between a four and eight week schedule depending on your environment and your horse. But getting those regular trims prevents those cracks from happening that allow the bacteria to enter in and do their nastiness. The other thing is quality fencing. And that is where most of I see the, the lacerations or you know like I've put my foot through the fence and pulled back and now I've injured my leg pretty badly. So, that's why I am non-weightbearing, you know, good quality fencing for horses. I'm a strong believer in electricity on horse fences, . But looking at your fencing and saying, and boy this is hard, right? Like how is my horse going to hurt himself on this fencing .

 

Katy Starr (00:42:50):

Yep.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:42:51):

Find and trying to eliminate that.

 

Katy Starr (00:42:52):

Yeah they're pretty good about that.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:42:55):

They are. Yep. So, I would say those are the two big things that help eliminate a lot of those non-weight-bearing type lameness.

 

Katy Starr (00:43:03):

And so for choke we know, you know, choke isn't like a blocked airway necessarily like it is for humans but at what point you know, is it no longer safe for them to see if they can help their horse on their own, and they do need the vet to be there.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:43:20):

First off you should soak all of your alfalfa cubes or hay pellets or cubes because that helps minimize that. But my usual rule is, you know if you just fed and you notice that your horse backed off from the feed and then you see that they have food coming from their nose, I'm going to set a timer for 30 minutes and I'm going to see what happens. Because they will say most of the products that are out there today, like I think about the concentrates, I think about even the hay pellets and cubes. The manufacturing process is such that if we can get enough saliva down there and trust me they will put a lot of saliva down there, then oftentimes they will break it up and move it on down on their own. In particular the concentrates and this, the most common thing horses choke on is the concentrates that we're feeding them.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:44:08):

I feel like one day maybe I'll get answers to the questions I have about the universe and one of them is why horses choke on concentrates and not hay because I don't understand it. But anyway, that's what they choke on. So, giving it time and not doing things like putting the water hose in their mouth or you know, forcing them water into them in any way is key. So, again, like I said, most of these products are made such as they dissolve pretty readily after 30 minutes. Then give me a call if your horse is still choking at that point we're going to start heading your way. I don't give them banamine, most people will report to me that they gave them banamine orally and it's not going to go anywhere because there's a choke keeping it from getting it where it needs to go.

 

Katy Starr (00:44:53):

Going where it, yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yes. Yep.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:44:57):

And we don't necessarily need an anti-inflammatory here. What we need is relaxation. If you see that you can see the lump on the side, which sometimes you can, you are more than welcome to gently massage that. Sometimes that will help break it up. Not always but sometimes. And so you're never wrong to gently massage if you can see a lump again. The big thing I avoid is getting water into them in any way where you're forcing it. Because you are causing a huge risk of aspiration pneumonia. And that is why I say at 30 minutes I'm going to head that way. Because the choke for horses isn't the problem. You know, they have, as we've said, some questionable design decisions were made, but the good one is that they choke in their esophagus. So, humans we choke in the back of our mouth and that's why we can't breathe. Horses choke in their esophagus so they can continue to breathe. But prolonged chokes set up a situation where that food and saliva can end up in the lungs and that is the nastiest pneumonia you've ever seen. It's, it's bad. And so that's why we want to see them if they haven't passed it after 30 minutes is to minimize that problem. Chokes are kind of a fun one for me. I mean, depends on your definition of fun I guess. But I usually end up covered in concentrate.

 

Katy Starr (00:46:18):

Waters in there .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:46:21):

My husband goes on a lot of emergencies with me and if it's a choke, he knows. So, we, we were at one the other night and I was passing the tube and he was behind me so he always gets behind me on chokes , he knows and he's got the bucket behind pumping the pump while I'm passing the tube. And the husband of the horse owner came in front. He's like, you do not want to stand there. . That's The splash zone .

 

Katy Starr (00:46:44):

Whoa. Yes, yes. Well, and I'm glad you mentioned the part about not forcing water down because I have seen, which we never condone, you know, getting your information from the internet, but in like horse groups, people talking about doing that and so I'm really glad that you mentioned that that can cause more problems later on if you do choose to do that.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:47:10):

Yeah, chokes are typically, you know, again, like I said, they're, they're fun for me because they're, they're typically quick and easy unless we've got some aspiration pneumonia going on. Yeah.

 

Katy Starr (00:47:21):

Yeah. And then it's worse.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:47:22):

Yeah. And that is usually a time factor. But the other place I've seen them is people trying to get water down their horse.
 

Katy Starr (00:47:29):

Excellent. Okay. No, that is so good to know. So, you've talked about not putting water down. If you see a lump kind of gently massage it down to kind of help break it up. Is there anything else, let's say it's been 30 minutes and you're on your way. Is there anything else that we should have our horse owners recommend that they do?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:47:45):

Keep them quiet. You know, like I'll put them someplace where they feel safe. One of the things we want to do on those guys sometimes, a lot of times these are older horses and so if they're out in a field with others, I will try to get them either out of that field or like into a feeding pen in the field. I don't necessarily want to stress them out, but I also want to make sure that the other horses aren't making them feel pressure. That pressure doesn't do us any good. We need the esophagus to relax, not tighten down. So, the more we can keep them calm, quiet, happy, you know, play them some zen spa music, you know, whatever we need to do for them to be calm and happy until we get there is the absolute best thing you can do.

 

Katy Starr (00:48:27):

Excellent. Okay. And so you talked about ways that horses can choke and some things like that. So, knowing that we keep our horses in an environment that is not what they used to be in on our modern times, right? Often we have more than one horse and then they are meal fed, right? And so they have to wait for their next meal. So, all of these things I think can kind of contribute and add up to behavior that could cause choke for a horse. But what, aside from, you know, soaking pellets and cubes, some things like that, do you have any other recommendations for preventing choke?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:49:01):

For some of my chronic chokers, I will make sure that every meal they get is at least a stew . Oh yes, okay. There's not a straight up soup, right? There is definitely in the geriatric population, I have horses that I strongly suspect don't have proper movement of the food bolus from their mouth to their stomach. We know that happens in humans. I feel pretty strongly that that has happened in my geriatric population for a number of them. And those horses we can continue to feed them concentrate, but it has to be like, I think Campbell's chicken noodle soup like three noodles and a bowl of broth. Right? So, yeah, really, really soupy. I also try like heck to make sure that they aren't feeling that pressure from other horses during mealtime. That's a big one that I'll get them to kind of grab and run. Yeah. And we want to minimize that.

 

Katy Starr (00:49:54):

Just inhale .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:49:55):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing that I've done with them, kind of like with my cats is slow feed bowls for the ones that, you know, they aren't feeling pressure, but there's a number of different feeder options out there that if you have to feed them large quantities of concentrate, you know, they basically have a bunch of little tiny bowls in there and so it, it makes it harder for them to grab a mouthful and really bolt that mouthful. So, those are my go-to strategies for those guys. Water being a, a critical component of it. So, soaking those meals. Yeah.

 

Katy Starr (00:50:27):

That's excellent. And I'm curious, for horses that choke one time, does that mean that they'll be more likely to choke in the future? Or have you seen that?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:50:36):

That has not been my experience. Okay. That changes when you ask me about horses who are older than 25, 26.

 

Katy Starr (00:50:43):

Right. Because it, for the reasons why, makes complete sense. Yes.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:50:48):

Yep. Yeah. But even those, sometimes I'll tell you that, you know, I see them for one choke and then I don't see them for a choke again.

 

Katy Starr (00:50:55):

That’s good. That's always good for a horse owner to know is it's not going to make, make them more prone to be choking on things unless it's, I mean, choking is also behavior. So, as long as you can kind of take some steps when you know that your horse kind of has a, has a tendency to bolt their food. If you take some of those steps to kind of help prevent what could cause that then should hopefully be all right. And so, for dystocia or foaling complications, emergency situations really kind of come into play here. So, how can horse owners prepare ahead of time so they're not scrambling when it's time to get things going?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:51:33):

I'm going to start with horses. Mares should fall very quickly and that is very different than the rest of the world. So, you know, like cows, goats, humans, hours, right? Horses, when the process starts, something should be happening every moment of the way. And typically within 30 minutes we've got a baby on the ground. If not, this is an absolute emergency. We have such a tiny window of time to do anything. It's so tiny that when I come to the farm, you know, I tell the owner I have 20 minutes to see if I can fix what's wrong. During that 20 minutes you are going to be hooking up the truck and trailer because she's got to go if I can't get it fixed. So, we have that little time to get anything done. So, being prepared, like having the truck and trailer hooked up, you know like horses operate on Murphy's Law, right? So, let's make sure we have everything ready.

 

Katy Starr (00:52:31):

100% yes.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:52:32):

But also being ready with scissors. There's a great folding kit guideline. A EP has one also. Basically our, our general first aid kit that we have on the app is a great set of things that you can have around, but scissors are a big deal. Mares will do something, call a red bag, where the first thing you see when they're foalingis you should see white. If you see red, that means that the placenta has separated before it was supposed to. And that foal needs to come out. So, like that is, you cannot wait for me in some ways you can't even wait to call me. So, I cut the bag open and get the nose on that foal out. But in general, I would rather talk to you a hundred times during the foaling process than have you questioning anything because it goes sideways so quickly.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:53:22):

And the same a little bit for foals. So, you know, we talked about fever in your kids, but they're now, you know, like when they're tiny babies, it's a whole different deal than when they're, you know that once they're toddlers they can have some fevers, right? They'll be all right. Yeah. Yeah. Tiny babies, not so much. So, again, those foals, the first two weeks is the critical period where I'm like, if you're not sure of something they're doing, I want to talk to you after that. We can let them be babies a little bit. You know, like two weeks is when they reach their toddler face . So, in that first two weeks, if they suddenly come up lame on a leg, owners will say, oh, mom stepped on them. Rarely does that happen. It's more commonly that they have an infected joint.

 

Katy Starr (00:54:04):

Oh, interesting. Okay.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:54:06):

They are able to do better with that than grownup horses. But we still need to get on it very quickly to manage what's going on in that joint, get them on antibiotics, get them flushed, get care in place for that joint so their temperatures can be a little bit higher. Their temperature can be very variable depending on the environment, right? So, if the foalis out in the sun playing and you bring them in and check them, they can be as high as 103°F, 104°F. We check them again in 10, 15 minutes and see if that temperature's coming down. They range a little bit higher and then it's, it's so environment dependent that I'll, I'll recheck them a lot over 15, 20 minutes and see what the temperature's doing to give me an idea. Their heart rate is also higher, especially if you're trying to hold them still and listen to it. So, we, we will say an 80 is done high normal for a full, on a regular basis. But again, they can go sideways so quickly in those first two weeks that I'd rather talk to you a million times about what it's doing than have you worried about what's going on.

 

Katy Starr (00:55:08):

And with dystocia or foaling complications, is that just like pretty unpredictable or are there things that we can do to help prevent that? Or if a mare has trouble with one foaling season, does that mean that she's prone to in future seasons or anything like that?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:55:26):

So, for mares it does not 100%, but often enough that we worry if they have trouble in one foaling that they may have trouble in future foalings. So, those are mares we're watching like a hawk in the future and we recommend that they go to a vet clinic for future foaling's for sure. So, they're monitored. We do regular ultrasounds on our mares. We recommend that they get ultrasound at seven months minimum. But we often will do them at five, seven and nine months. And one of the things we can see is do we have a head facing us? Because by around seven to eight months they'll have flipped around and we have a head. So, I feel pretty good if I've got the head facing towards me. The other thing, again, horses do so many things wrong, but foaling, they have a really low foaling badness percentage and it is less than 0.1% of foaling.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:56:18):

So, it's unlikely. And everyone I've been involved with, we had no preparation that we had this coming and they were horses that we monitored very closely. You know, I had one in the clinic because she had had bad foaling's. Every foaling that that mare had was bad and for no good reason, the FO was spun around. Everything was good. She just had bad foaling's every single time. And so, you know, she was one, certainly we couldn't predict it the first time, but it is very, very rare having that ultrasound to make sure things are where they're supposed to be. And then operating a Murphy's Law and making sure that you have towels, you have scissors, you have the truck and trailer hooked up, you know you've got the camera, you're staring at them being prepared. My little superstitious heart says that makes foing go well, .

 

Katy Starr (00:57:07):

Yeah because you get all this work done to prepare for it and then it's all good .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:57:11):

Yeah, exactly. , yeah. But unfortunately there's not much you can do to truly prepare for like, this mare has something going on and we know it's going to be bad. Those are few and far between.

 

Katy Starr (00:57:23):

That's good to know. Okay. So, if a horse owner wants to be better prepared for an emergency before it even happens, what are your recommended go-to supplies that they should kind of keep in their first aid kit? For sure.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:57:37):

So, most of this has to do with being ready for the lacerations and to get me TPR. So, I want to make sure that you have, you know, towels are never wrong, duct tape's, never wrong. Diapers are never wrong . So, you know, those are, can we handle the laceration side of things from there? It's a thermometer, a stethoscope and you can get, I mean there's cheap stethoscopes where just as well as expensive ones for sure for getting heart rates on horses. So, making sure you have a temperature and a stethoscope, shockingly a notebook and something to write in. Because that often becomes key in terms of timing on stuff. Especially with foaling. We really write down the times that things happen. And then the other thing that I strongly recommend in a first aid kit is, is something to cut things with. So, you know, whether that's knife, scissors, maybe both of those.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:58:30):

Because you know that your horse is going to do something where like you need to cut a lead rope or a halter or whatever, right? So, I have all the implements to cut things in there. And then I have your veterinarian's phone number written down. You know, like it is either the card is taped in your first aid kit or you have it written in Sharpie on there, like someplace the phone number is written down because inevitably you will not be able to find it in your contacts or you know, you'll push the number wrong. Something bad will happen when you're trying to come up with that in the moment. And that's where, you know, having that phone number right in front of you is key. What you'll notice I did not talk about was that you should have medications in your first aid kit. And it is because most of the time when medications are truly in a first aid kit and I open it up, they were from 1982.

Katy Starr (00:59:21):

. Right? because they've been there. Yeah

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:59:23):

. Exactly. So, as much as I recognize it's convenient to have them in the first aid kit, they should probably be elsewhere. And your refrigerator is not wrong for any of the common medications that we've talked about, like the triple antibiotic or the Bute or Banamine. All of those can handle fridge life no problem. It's mostly, you know where they are and you have a plan in place where you go through that, you know, yearly twice a year to make sure you are like, is my banamine older than any horse on the property?

 

Katy Starr (00:59:56):

There's your sign .

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (00:59:58):

Yeah, exactly. So, are the medications that I have in date or should I talk with my veterinarian at my next regularly scheduled appointment to manage that? So, it seems like you don't need, you know, sort of this robust first aid kit. It's being able to bandage, blood and get tprs. Those are the big things that we need for horses.

 

Katy Starr (01:00:18):

And so speaking of medications, a lot of horse owners have banamine, bute on hand for whatever, whenever. Are there any instances, you kind of mentioned it through some of those common scenarios, but are there any instances where it's fine for the horse owner to be giving it to their horse if they're in a certain situation? Or should it be that they need to talk to you first? Like what are your thoughts on that?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:00:43):

We typically make sure, this is something we talk about at a routine appointment because I don't necessarily mind you giving it to the horse who has a mild colic. But we ask that we get a text basically that says, just so you know, you're giving it. Because what that does is for us, it puts us as the clinic on alert that we may have one out there. So, that's where we appreciate it because it helps us sort of just have a potential plan if we need it. You know, if your horses slightly lame, you know, some of those scenarios, I'm absolutely fine with you giving it. The big key for me is that you have a conversation with your veterinarian about those scenarios so that everybody's comfortable with what you're doing. And the other thing is that you know, your horses weight. So, on our YouTube channel and again on the app, the equine emergency vet guide, we have a way to do this.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:01:34):

But having an idea of your horse's weight will change the amount you give. So, in that case where you know, you talk to your veterinarian, they're like, yeah, that's a mild colic, I'm, I'm fine with you giving it. Or you say this is a pretty mild colic or a pretty mild lameness. I'm going to go ahead and give some Bute, that's certainly reasonable. But be aware that if it's the miniature horse in the barn, that horse might weigh 150 pounds and that is a very different dose. And if you're giving that tiny thing, five ccs of banamine for example, because you're like, oh it's smaller than the 10 or 12, I would give a horse, you've actually overdosed that pony by five times and you can very quickly wreck the kidneys. And so we want to make sure that we know we're giving a weight appropriate dose. And again, those are great conversations to have during routine appointments with your veterinarian.

 

Katy Starr (01:02:28):

Have you ever had a situation where somebody thought that they were doing good by giving their horsebanamine or butefor whatever instance, and you were like, this is not an instance where we should be giving this to them. Has that ever happened for you?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:02:42):

The most common way we see that is not the one time dose. That's where I, you know, like I'm, I'm usually pretty okay with a onetime dose. All of those instances have been that the horse has been, you know, they had bute or banamineor their neighbor hadbute or banamine and the horse has been on it for two weeks and we should have seen them 12 days ago. So, if you're finding that you are repeatedly giving these medications and things aren't improving and in particular like the low level colic where you gave it and now you're like, well it's, it's 10 hours later, I can give it again. Right. You shouldn't need to in a normal horse, if we give that mild colic a dose of banamine, we should have a normal horse by four or five hours later. You know, if we don't, don't redose the banamine. Definitely call your veterinarian.

 

Katy Starr (01:03:29):

Okay. That's so good to know. And then we've talked a little bit, I guess, about this throughout this episode, but just trying to make sure that we plan ahead as best as we can before an emergency even happens. What conversations should horse owners be having with their equine veterinarians?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:03:46):

A couple of the big ones would be what are the scenarios where you want me to do not stop, do not pass, goto the referral hospital. And those are conversations we have with especially some of our owners who are far away from us where it's going to take us a bit to get there. That's where it's fantastic to be able to get your horse's vital signs because a heart rate of 60 in a horse is a really big deal. And the chances are that if you call me with that horse acting colicky and that heart rate is 60, I'm going to say don't stop by me head straight on to the referral hospital where surgery is an option. It's having that conversation with your veterinarian about what are the things where I call you while I'm on the way ?

 

Katy Starr (01:04:29):

Yes

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:04:30):

To the hospital. Where is the nearest referral hospital to you? You know, what are the places that your veterinarian would recommend that you look at as options for you to go to? And that way you know how to get to them. Because again, horses operate on Murphy's Law. So, if you know how to get there, you won't need them. Your veterinarian's availability during emergencies. As we talked about, this is a pain point certainly for veterinarians and owners and as there are fewer veterinarians, it's harder to find one in an emergency. And so talking with your veterinarian about what are the parameters that you have for being available for emergency. For many people it's that you have to have had routine care with them in the last year. So, knowing that ahead of time so that the expectations are proper on both sides I think is really important. But also knowing the comfort level you and your veterinarian have with that use of drugs like bute or banamine in different scenarios, I think the best time to have those conversations is not in an emergency .

 

Katy Starr (01:05:31):

Right. Definitely. I think being able to have a good established relationship, I think all around that makes it so much easier honestly for the veterinarian, but then also for your relationship with them in general. Just kind of having that respect with them. Because I mean you guys I feel like are put in a lot of stressful situations sometimes because you are the ones that are called for the emergencies, right? And so you are dealing with these things and so having kind of a plan ahead of time with those and knowing, because it also gives you kind of a sight into that horse in general. Especially when you can have some of those routine care done with them. Seeing that horse before, it's not like this is the first time I've seen this horse . Like I think it just overall for everybody makes things so much better.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:06:20):

Sometimes it's, woo, this is the first time I've seen this driveway. , how do I get down it?

 

Katy Starr (01:06:26):

, you don't want it to be that, right? So, , right. Excellent. Okay, so as we wrap this episode up, what would you say are probably some of your key takeaways that you would like to leave our listeners with about equine emergencies?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:06:41):

Once again, trust yourself. You know, your horse, you guys spend more time with them than me as your veterinarian ever does. If we're in a perfect scenario, I see you twice a year and that's it. So, if you have concerns about your horse, those are valid. And give your veterinarian a call. You know, if you think those are an emergency situation where your horse is showing discomfort or not eating super important. Second, as we just talked about, have a great relationship with your veterinarian. I mean hopefully it's that you only see them once or twice a year and that's your great relationship, but having those conversations with them ahead of time will help you be so much better prepared. And third, please learn how to take your horses' vital signs.

 

Katy Starr (01:07:20):

Yes, excellent. Those are such great tips for horse owners. So, how can our listeners stay connected with you after this episode?

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:07:28):

Well, we put out a podcast on the 1st and 15th of every month called Straight from the Horse Doctor's Mouth. So, there's tons of information there. And as I've mentioned, we have a YouTube channel called Spring Hill, actually it's Spring Hill Vet, but if you go on YouTube and hit Spring Hill Equine, you'll find us. And then we have an app available to help you in these tricky scenarios called the Equine Emergency Vet Care Guide. It is available offline, so if your barn does not have cell service, because that's a thing we all know, once you get the app, it is all on there so you can access all of the information, you can't access the videos. But the rest of it, like, you know, is this an emergency? What should I do? All of those steps you can do without cell service.

 

Katy Starr (01:08:11):

That's so good. I love that. And we'll be sure to include that all in the show notes so it's easy for our listeners to find you. But Dr. Lacher, thank you so much for being on today. I feel like we covered a lot of great information, and so I think our listeners will hopefully find it helpful and useful and maybe feel more empowered and prepared if they ever come across equine emergency because when you own horses it's likely , horses . Yes. So, thank you for being on today. We appreciate you so much.

 

Dr. Erica Lacher (01:08:46):

Thank you.

 

Katy Starr (01:08:48):

Thanks for listening to The Beyond the Barn podcast by Standlee Forage. We'd love for you to share our podcast with your favorite people and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform. Until next time, keep your cinch tight and don't forget to turn off the water.