This is an explicit episode. If you are uncomfortable with swearing, you may not want to listen to or read this episode transcription.
Katy Starr (00:01):
Hi, I'm Katy.
Dr. Tania Cubitt (00:02):
And I'm Dr. Cubitt. We're going Beyond the Barn. Come join us on this journey as we bust equine and livestock nutrition, myths and interview some of the most intriguing experts in the country.
Katy Starr (00:15):
We'll go behind the scenes of how premium Western quality forage is grown and brought to your favorite farm and ranch retail store. We're so glad you're here.
Welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Barn. Today's guest is a horse trainer and competitor, and one of the most world-renowned clinicians. He's a native Australian that came to the U.S. in the mid 1990s. He's the founder and owner of Downunder Horsemanship, which he created in 1998 with a desire to help people develop better relationships with their horses. Clinton Anderson, welcome to our podcast today.
Clinton Anderson (00:55):
Well, thank you for having me, mate. It's great to be here.
Katy Starr (00:59):
So let's just get started with, why don't you tell us a little bit about your story and background. How did you get interested with horses and this lifestyle?
Clinton Anderson (01:09):
Well, my grandmother, basically my grandparents got me and my sister into horses as kids. You know, she had horses on the farm growing up and she had a love for horses and a passion, and she kind of passed that on to the grandchildren. So we really just started there, but we were just kind of, you know, playing in the backyard, backyard pets. We didn't really know what we were doing. So as far as training and horsemanship and knowing what we were doing, wasn't real good. You know, we were just a bunch of rednecks that loved horses and just enjoyed them. And then from there I kind of got into, you know, I enjoyed learning about horses and trying to get 'em to act better and ride better and, and so forth. And so I just kind of had a desire to learn more and then that took me down, you know, several different other paths, but originally it just got started with the family farm and my grandparents.
Katy Starr (02:01):
That's awesome. What would you say is a standout memory for you as a kid or teen with horses? Something that you'll never forget?
Clinton Anderson (02:11):
I would probably say, when my, when I first learned to canter on a horse. I, you know, for a couple of years when I first learned to ride, I would trot everywhere. And then, I, cuz I didn't like the feeling of a horse loping it felt like I was getting pitched over the horse's head. And so my grand, grandfather just kind of kept pushing me to, to try to lope the horse and, and loping the horse and getting used to that feeling. And that was kind of a big breakthrough for me as a kid, you know, he'd run beside the horse on leadline and try to get it to lope and so forth. So that was kind, I remember that as being a kid and so it took me two years to learn to canter, and then once I learned how to canter, and then I cantered everywhere for about the next 10 years. yeah. Never walked and trotted anywhere.
Katy Starr (02:54):
Yeah. It gets yourself there in a hurry though.
Clinton Anderson (02:56):
Yes, it did.
Katy Starr (02:57):
That's awesome. What would you say, when you were growing up with your grandparents, did you actually live on the farm or did you grow up in the city?
Clinton Anderson (03:06):
I more or less grew up in the city. I grew up in a place called Cairns Queensland Australia, which is where the Great Barrier Reef is in Australia. Very touristy area. The best way to describe it to people in America is like Miami, Florida, palm trees, fishing, beaches. So that's where I grew up. And the family farm, my grandparents farm was probably an hour away in a place called Innisfail. That was also on the coast, but it was, it was an hour away. So we would just go down there on the weekends and ride the horses and play around. My grandmother was one that really had the passion for the horses. And, but again, we lacked any knowledge. We were just a bunch of backyard, redneck kids just trying to get along and try to do the bestwe can. We didn't really know anything to be honest.
Katy Starr (03:51):
And when you started doing some more with horses, was it polo that you started getting interested in initially?
Clinton Anderson (03:57):
Polocrosse, so it's the kind of joke is it's called it's polocrosse is what they call poor man's polo, which is, you know, in polo you use four different sets of horses to play the game in Australia polocrosse, we have one horse and we ride at four different times. So basically, basically we are, we're not, we're too poor to have four different horses. So we just rode one son of a bitch four times. That's the joke about it. It's poor man's polo. So, but the game was polocrosse.
Katy Starr (04:26):
Oh, that's funny. That's great. So your horse got a lot of experience then with you in that sport.
Clinton Anderson (04:31):
They got a lot of riding. I can promise you. We about rode the son of a bitch til they dropped dead, but we rode them.
Katy Starr (04:37):
oh gosh. That's so fun. Now kind of working into some of your experience in the world of training. When horse owners come to you with riding or handling issues at your Walkabout Tours or whenever, what would you say is the most common issue or concern that you've heard from them?
Clinton Anderson (04:57):
Oh, I would say it probably goes into two categories. The horse is either biting them or being disrespectful on the ground towards them, being pushy and dominant or they're fearful when they ride. You know, they're fearful when they ride, they’re worried they're gonna get bucked off. They're worried the horse is gonna act up. They just have fear issues around riding the horse. They're probably the two most common threads of questions that I get over the last 25 years of doing this, that relate around those subjects.
Katy Starr (05:29):
That makes a lot of sense. I mean, just considering that, depending on how big the horses that you're riding, they know, if they know any better, they could, you know, do a lot of damage and take over a lot of control. But I guess that's the whole aspect to your training and what you teach horse owners is how to create that relationship so they trust you.
Clinton Anderson (05:51):
Well, it's not just about trust. It's more about respect to be honest, because when a horse respects you he'll trust you, you know, so I'm trying to teach people, when you gain the horse's respect, everything else kind of falls into place. But if you don't gain the horse's respect, he might not, he might trust you and walk up to you, but he's certainly not gonna respect you. So respect is the thing that I hit home first on. And then once the horse respects you and you respect him, then, then a lot of other benefits happen from that point. But the first initial thing is, if you don't have the horse's respect, you're in a dangerous situation.
Katy Starr (06:28):
Oh, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. This might actually be related to the previous question that I asked, but what would you say is the biggest mistake that you see horse owners make when it comes to riding or handling horses?
Clinton Anderson (06:42):
Hmm. I would probably say the biggest mistake people have is lack of consistency, meaning that I always, it's kind of a joke, but it's really at the real, at the same time, always say there's, there's only three ways to get a well-trained horse. You buy it trained, you pay somebody else to train it or you train it yourself. There is no way around getting a trained horse unless somebody spends quality time with it. So a lot of people want their horses to behave good, but they're unwilling to put in the miles and the consistency to get it to ride good. So I would say people think they're gonna train their horse once a week on a Saturday afternoon and not work with it until the following Saturday, that they're gonna see improvement. You know, they'd be like if I said to you, I sent my kid to school one day a week and I wonder why the kid wouldn't graduate at 18, you would not be shocked.
Clinton Anderson (07:33):
Would you? You know, that's, that's kind of how it is with horse owners is that they want their horses to behave good. They want them to ride good. They want them to act good. But they're either unwilling or do not have the time to train the horses. And I'm fine with that. Like I said, there's only three ways to get a well-trained horse. You buy it trained, you pay somebody else to train it or you train it yourself. I do not know any other way to get a really well-trained horse other than one of those three categories. And I don't have a dog in the fight. If you buy it trained, that's fine, but you still have to gain the horse's respect and make it mind and make it know that you are the leader.
Katy Starr (08:13):
Right. And I'm curious, based off of what you just said, if you buy it trained or let's say you take it to a trainer, how then does that translate to the horse owner themselves? Does the horse automatically respect that owner or do they have this new person here and it's, they have a little work to put in as the horse owner in general, wouldn't they?
Clinton Anderson (08:36):
Well, I always say respect is not transferable. So you could come by a really well-trained horse from me and it went, if I send it to you or you come pick it up and you don't gain that horse's respect and be an effective leader and you don't move the horse's feet forwards, backwards, left, and right and get the horse used and think inside of his brain, that horse not overnight, but over a period of 2, 3, 4 months will slowly get a little more disrespectful, slowly, get a little more pushy, slowly, get a little more disobedient. And he'll eventually not act like a very well-trained horse. So yes, respect is not transferable. Everybody needs to earn that horse's respect. Now, obviously the more well trained the horse is, the less it will unravel so to speak. If it's a very green broke horse and it gets a new owner, but doesn't know how to gain its respect, it'll unravel pretty damn quickly.
Clinton Anderson (09:31):
Okay. So yes, you can still buy a horse and screw it up by not being an effective leader. You know, it, you know, just because, you know, relate to it as kids, you know, when we were kids and you had a substitute teacher that came in for the day, let's face facts, there were some substitute teachers that we knew within 30 seconds of them starting the class, we were gonna walk all over the teacher. And there were other substitute teachers that walked in and within the first 30 seconds, you're like, holy shit, they're gonna make us actually do our work. So we knew that as kids instinctively within about 30 seconds of meeting the new substitute teacher, we knew if it was gonna be a screw off day or we knew it was gonna be, holy shit, we're gonna actually be held accountable and do our homework. Well, we knew that as kids, horses pretty much act the same way as children.
Katy Starr (10:23):
Yeah. That makes complete sense.
Clinton Anderson (10:25):
So they know, and they know immediately, they know immediately.
Katy Starr (10:28):
Oh yeah. It's like a presence that they have
Clinton Anderson (10:31):
Yes. Horses know when you know, and they know when you don't know.
Katy Starr (10:35):
And ultimately it's just a matter of being willing to put in the work and consistency. And there's no, no way around it.
Clinton Anderson (10:42):
Well, you know, when you say work consistency, you're right to a point, but it's not like work as in, you have to go run a marathon. There are certain techniques and certain exercises, but don't take more than two or three minutes to do like backing, for example. Just backing your horse up every day, backing him up and down the alleyway at the barn, back him into the stall, back him, out of the stall, back him into the wash rack. There are certain, very simple little things you can do as you're going about your day that can produce a hell of a lot of respect and a hell of a lot of the horse listening to you. So I don't want, when you say work in consistency, you are right that you have to put in your effort, but especially if the horse is well trained, it takes very little effort to make a, a well-respected, trained horse, respect you. Because as soon as you even remotely show some leadership skills, the horse is like, oh, you're just like Clinton. I get it. You know, don't you. Now, if the horse is green broke, yes. You have to put in a lot more effort to get him to behave, you know, get him to respect you then.
Katy Starr (11:47):
That's great. Well, that's gotta be encouraging for our listeners to hear that it's not a huge uphill battle if you've already got some work put into the horse. So that's great.
Clinton Anderson (11:56):
Again, horses, horses are the complete opposite of a car. When you buy a car, you want low miles on it and you want it new. Okay? Because the more miles it has on it, the more older it is, the more beat up it is, the more, you know, repairs it needs. Horses are complete opposite. The more hours a horse has had being ridden and trained, the better it acts. The greener, it is like a two-year-old that would have zero hours on the odometer when it's first saddled. Well, that horse is not that valuable, but a horse that has had 500, 600 man hours put into him is worth a lot more than a horse that's had 20 rides on him because 20 hours of training compared to 600 is a big difference. Isn't it?
Katy Starr (12:41):
Clinton Anderson (12:43):
So buying a well-trained horse is the complete opposite of buying a car. You wanna buy brand new cars with low miles. And when you buy horses, typically if you wanna well-trained horse, you wanna buy a horse. That's had hundreds or thousands of hours on his odometer so that you know, that you're buying a safe, reliable horse.
Katy Starr (13:02):
Right. And after years as an experience, clinician and horse trainer, what would you say your best advice that you'd like to share with those who are wanting to become better horseman, horsewomen, and just better relationships with their horses, what are kind of your top tips that you would give them?
Clinton Anderson (13:21):
Oh, I would say maybe knowledge is power. You know, the more knowledgeable you become, the more powerful you are. Knowledge is power. There is a world of knowledge out there on horsemanship. You know, back when I was a kid, there was no books or literature that I could get my hands on, on the type of horse training that I'm doing now. So we were kind of, you know, left to the dark blindly leading ourselves down the road. Now there's no excuse. You have YouTube, you've got Facebook, you've got videos, you've got clinicians, you've got clinics, you've got tours. I mean, talk about a wealth of information out there that if you have a desire to learn about horsemanship, there is a wealth of information that's free out there. You know, take me, for example, I've got over 300 videos on face, on, on YouTube, alone of training horses free.
Clinton Anderson (14:15):
You know, my club's $20 a month to be a basic member. If you want to be a premium member and get all of my material, it's 40 bucks a month. My point is, there's no excuse for not knowing anymore. You could say Clinton, I don't have a lot of money. Great. Go to YouTube. There is a wealth of information on YouTube. That's absolutely free. So basically my only thing is how bad do you want it? You know, when I was a kid, I didn't have that advantage of being able to watch that stuff. I wish I did because man, I would've learned a lot quicker, but those resources weren't around.
Katy Starr (14:52):
Yeah. Definitely. Things are definitely different now. Um, and there's a wealth of information on any kind of topic that people could ever wish to know about. So you just gotta be willing to seek it out and find it.
Clinton Anderson (15:04):
YouTube to me is like a massive, big world library now. That's what YouTube is literally anything you wanna learn on YouTube. If you wanna learn how to brush your teeth, some guys put a video on there on how to brush your teeth. I mean, it's the weirdest thing in the world. YouTube is literally turned into, it started out as funny gag videos. And now 15 years later, 20 years later, it's basically a library of education.
Katy Starr (15:31):
Yeah. It's got a ton of great content on there.
Clinton Anderson (15:34):
I don't even watch regular TV anymore because whatever subject I'm interested in learning about or wanna know more about, I just type it into YouTube and it brings me up 10,000 videos on the subject I wanna learn about. If I wanna learn about history, history, if I wanna learn about cars, cars, if I wanna learn about dog training, dog training.
Katy Starr (15:52):
Yeah. No, definitely. We tend to watch a lot of YouTube ourselves and not as much TV these days.
Clinton Anderson (15:58):
Yeah. I don't watch any TV, but I watch a lot of educational on YouTube.
Katy Starr (16:02):
Yeah. But that's good. Right. I mean, you're like constantly learning and I think that's awesome.
Clinton Anderson (16:07):
Yeah because it, whatever I'm interested in, I can find it.
Katy Starr (16:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I know this has changed some since you've kind of semi-retired, but could you take us through a day in the life of Clinton Anderson, maybe, maybe how it used to be when you were full-time doing a bunch of the clinician stuff, and then just how it is now for you.
Clinton Anderson (16:27):
It's quite a bit different. You know, when I was, you know, full swing with the business and so forth, I would always get up earlier. I'd probably get up around five thirty, six o'clock and, you know, go to the office by seven o'clock and I'd be in the office for a lot of the part of the day. And then I'd be trying to ride horses and in meetings all day and traveling and airplanes and hotel rooms, and it was, it was just constantly on the road. And constantly either putting out fires or in meetings, trying to grow the company, et cetera. It was very stressful just to be perfectly honest. Now I don't do any meetings. I don't even really run the, we're not really, I don't run the company anymore at all. I'm down to about eight employees, but these employees are so crucial now and they know their jobs that have been with me so long that they know their job.
Clinton Anderson (17:20):
So now I get up at four thirty and now it's more about lifestyle to me. So I get up at four thirty, I go to bed early though. I go to bed at like eight thirty, nine o'clock. I get up at four thirty. I go to the, I'm at the gym at five o'clock. I work out from, you know, five o'clock to about six thirty, quarter to seven. I come back, I have breakfast, I watch some YouTube videos or whatever I'm interested in learning or expanding on and then I get to the barn at eight and I pretty much ride horses from eight o'clock to about four or five o'clock in the afternoon. I quit and I go home and just kind of putter around or learn something else that I want, that I'm interested in doing. And like I said, I go to bed pretty early, 8:30, 9 o'clock I'm back in bed, but I also get up early too.
Clinton Anderson (18:05):
But I think the biggest difference now is I don't have the stress and the traveling schedule. I only travel three times a year to do tours. And I go to a horse show, maybe every four or five weeks. The employees that I've got now are kind of, for the most part, kind of like family, they know what they're doing, you know, I don't need to give 'em a lot of direction. They know their jobs. They're very good at their jobs. And I just kinda let, 'em be, to be honest with you. So, I keep the business going, but I'm not, how do I say this? I suppose, this is gonna sound bad, but I'll say it anyway. I don't care if it grows. I don't care if it grows or not, meaning that it'd be nice if it grew, but I don't really care.
Clinton Anderson (18:50):
What I care about is the content. I care that our content is good. Our image is good. As far as our branding, I care about the quality of the content of information we put out. I have no interest in, you know, growing it, or when I say growing it like getting bigger. Bigger, not always better. Like I had 40 employees at one point almost went bankrupt. I'm making more money now with eight employees than what I ever did at 40. So big is not necessarily better. So right. I don't have the stress of employees. Now, I basically get to get up and ride horses all day, which is really what I wanted to do 25 years ago. I never wanted to be a clinician. I wanted to ride horses and train, and I never wanted to teach people. I was good at it and I kind of fell into that industry, but it's not really what I wanted to do.
Katy Starr (19:41):
You, I had heard you say in another interview, just the amount of hours that you put in when you were full time as compared to now. And I just thought it was so interesting because now, like the hours that you work are put into, obviously you have a lot of joy in riding horses and doing that aspect of it. But it's now like, your semi-retirement is like most people's normal, like nine to five type of work jobs. But I think that also just goes to show how, how hard you worked to grow what you had to set yourself up to where now you're able to do, you just have that flexibility and freedom that you didn't have before.
Clinton Anderson (20:22):
Yes. Like now, starting at eight and finishing at five, that's like bum hours. You're like a bum if you work those hours, I swear to God. Most of America think that's a hard day, f*ck a duck. I mean, a real day. If you're not doing at least 12 hours a day, you're not trying to be a winner. Seriously. That'll piss people off, but I don't care. Like if you really want to be successful in life and really win, and win means whatever you wanna win at, make money, grow a business, be career driven. If you are not doing 12 hours a day, six days a week, you're a bum, serious. Here's what I tell graduating students of my academy. Okay. This is really for anybody in life. Okay. Here's reality. And I don't care what team you pick, but this is the reality.
Clinton Anderson (21:12):
Take it or leave it. Eight hours a day will do this. If you work eight hours a day, this is what you'll get. You'll get a roof over your head and food on the table. And that's about it. You'll have a little bit of spending money, not much, eight hours a day. That's all it gets you. If you are willing to work 10 hours a day, five, six days a week, six days a week, 10 hours a day, you'll get a roof over your head, food on the table. You'll have some spending money, and maybe be able to put a little bit of money away for retirement. If you are willing to work 12 to 14 hours a day, six days a week, and really hump it, you can get rich. So it's up to you what you want to pick. I don't care what you want to pick, but that's the reality of it.
Clinton Anderson (22:01):
Everybody wants to get rich off working f*cking eight hours a day. It ain't gonna happen. That's reality of it. You can bitch. You can whine. You can say it should be different. Like I went to the dentist two months ago and the lady that I'm getting my teeth cleaned and the hygienist girl says, what do you do for a living? And I said, well, actually, I'm retired now. I really don't do anything. Which is kind of true to a point. I don't really f*cking do much compared to what I used to do, but I just said I was retired. And she said, how old are you? And I said, I'm 46. And she said, when did you retire? And I said, three years ago. And she said, oh my God, how did you retire at such an early age? It's really simple. I said, you've just gotta work 14 hours a day, six and a half days a week.
Clinton Anderson (22:44):
Give up Christmas, New Years, vacations, give up public holidays, give up family time. Personal sacrifice, basically can be committed to your career or business for about 20 years and you can retire with millions by 43. And I said it very casual, just like I'm saying it to you now, very nonchalant and casual. And she looked at me like with like I had three heads and she said that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. And I said, well, actually, no, it's not a lot of f*cking fun at all. It's not. But again, you asked, how did I get to retire at 43? And basically I get to f*ck off the rest of my life and do whatever the hell I want within reason. And that's how I did it. So, I really tell people, I really believe in life you have two choices.
Clinton Anderson (23:35):
You either piss away the first half of your life. You basically have fun till about 45. You don't save any money. You don't work on your retirement. You don't hustle. You don't sacrifice. You just do everything that's fun. And when you get to about 45, you'll wake up one day and say, holy shit, I have no retirement. I have no savings. I really don't have any major assets. In fact, I probably have f*cking debt. I'm in some trouble here. And here's what you have to do from 45 to the day you drop dead, you have to work your ass off to basically just survive and live to the day you drop dead. Or you can do what I did, which is I worked like a crazy maniac for the first 25 years of my life. And basically, hopefully, you know, work your ass off and invest your money.
Clinton Anderson (24:27):
Be smart with your money, make good investments, work hard, sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice. And by the time you get to 45, maybe 50 at the latest, you can retire. And retirement to me basically means you can do whatever the hell you want. So if you wanna sit on your ass and watch Netflix all day, that's your job. You're retired. Or in my case, I'm retired, but I still stay busy during the day. I, you know, I still ride horses all day, but I stay active. I stay very active, but I'm doing what I want to do. I'm interacting with the people that I want to interact with. I have a little sign on my mirror of my bathroom that says, are you getting positive energy from this person? And it says yes or no, if it's no get rid of them. So in life, there's always somebody like when you're in the mirror, brushing your teeth in the morning, there's always somebody on your mind.
Clinton Anderson (25:22):
You're thinking about somebody in your life, could be a family member, could be a customer, could be a loved one. It could be anybody. And at my age now, well, not even age, but my stage of my life, where I'm retired, I only mess with people that I'm getting positive energy with. So like me and you right now, we're having a conversation. Okay? So we're exchanging information right now. We're exchanging really what we're exchanging is energy. So when I get done with this conversation, if I get positive energy from being around you and interacting with you, if you call me back and say, Clinton, will you do another podcast? I'd say, sure. Let's do another podcast cuz I gained energy for interacting with you. Does that make sense? Now, if I get off, if I get off this phone call with you and I, I feel drained.
Clinton Anderson (26:11):
I feel less energetic than when I started. And you call me back three months from now and say, you wanna do it on podcast? I'm gonna say no, I'm gonna politely say no, I don't wanna do it. Now that's because I've retired. I've invested my money. I have the luxury of telling you no. That's the power of retirement. That's what people don't understand, what retirement is. Retirement is really the ultimate power in not having a mess with people that you don't wanna f*ck with. That's really what it is. It doesn't mean you quit working. It doesn't mean you quit doing what you wanna do. It just means the complete opposite. You only interact. Now if I'm broke and I need money and I need promotion and I was in the middle of, Downunder Horsemanship even, and, and you've been very pleasant. So don't get this, take this the wrong way. But let's just say you annoyed the shit outta me. And you called me back in three months and say, Clinton, would you like to do another podcast? I'd say, absolutely. Bring it on. Where is it? Because I need you.
Clinton Anderson (27:09):
I need the publicity. I need the advertising. I need the word of mouth. So even though you might have drive me f*cking insane, I'm gonna act like you're my best f*cking friend. I'm gonna pick up the phone. We're gonna have a wonderful conversation. That is the difference between what retirement does. Retirement gives you the power to choose who you interact with. So I have a little sign on my mirror of it says, are you getting positive energy from being around this person? So I'm so anti-negative energy now that if anybody I interact with is a energy vampire. I get rid of them outta my life immediately. Now, admittedly, until you retire, you don't have that luxury. Let's face it. We all in life have to deal with people and customers that drain the shit out of us that we have to deal with because they're paying us. We have mortgages, we have bank loans. We have families to feed, husbands and wives to take care of. So we don't have the luxury of picking who pays us do we?
Katy Starr (28:06):
Clinton Anderson (28:07):
So we have to deal with it. You know, Kristen, my partner, Kristen, she's really focused on her retirement and she's building rental homes and so forth. And I said, this is, this is not an easy deal, but you know, you're not gonna see any money, a return on your money for 20 years. But when you get to 55, you can literally walk away from life and do whatever you want. But that's the, that's the negative about retirement. It's like you invest in retirement, invest your money, but you don't see a return on that money straight away, meaning that you don't get a positive vibe from it. You get what I'm saying? It's like, you're constantly putting money away, but you're not getting that instant feedback of what benefit it gave you. Right? And I keep, I keep reminding her. The greatest thing about being retired is only messing with people that you enjoy their company. But until you get retired, you can't do that. At least in business, family you can, friends you can, but not in business.
Katy Starr (29:02):
I think that's such an interesting perspective that you just shared. Cuz I think a lot of people, when they think about retiring, they think about, oh, I don't have to work a day in my life again. But I mean, I think as you grow older, it's important that we keep ourselves busy and active. But that perspective of understanding that you can really take care of yourself from a mental aspect of getting rid of that negative energy and what drains you. I think that's fantastic.
Clinton Anderson (29:28):
Yeah. Like I'm 46, I turned 47 in, in September of this year, couple, two or three months. Reality is, you know, you might say it’s f*cking morbid, but it is what it is. My life's two thirds over. I plan to be dead by 60. I really do. I plan to be dead by 60. And you might say, well, why do you say that? Because a lot of men die. I've had a lot of great friends die between 60 and 65 of heart attacks. Men drop dead every day or the week of heart attacks. And not just older men, younger men too, but a lot of men between 60 and 65, even if they're not overweight, just seem to drop dead of heart attacks, women too, but mainly men. So I'm gonna have an attitude of I'm gonna get everything I want to get done in life and enjoy what I wanna get done.
Clinton Anderson (30:16):
Because any year after 60 is a gift, so do what you want to do. So like I said, pick a team, work your ass off the first half of your life. And hopefully, basically enjoy and piss off the second half and do whatever the hell you want or have fun the first half and you'll be forced to work the second half. But pick a team it's really that simple, but either way you've gotta pay the piper. It's just, yes. My health is, why do I work out at five o'clock in the morning? Because the most valuable asset I have at my age now is my health. What's the point of having f*cking millions if I die because I'm obese and I'm overweight. You know, if I don't take care of myself, what's the point of having money. So health is my most important thing now.
Clinton Anderson (31:01):
I've lost a bunch of weight. I'm working out every day, I'm eating right, I'm not drinking as much. You know, because, and not only that, I don't have all the stress of the business when I was in the business and had the constant stress of employees and traveling and the business, you end up, what do you think are really like, why do you, have you ever noticed a lot of really rich successful guys? What do you noticed about 'em when they're in their peak, they're typically physically a mess. They're they're drinking a lot. They're eating a lot. They're not exercising. You might say they're just lazy f*cks. No, they might be working a hundred, a hundred twenty hours a week, but that's the problem. You work so much, you quit taking care of your body. And now I kind of did that to myself, to be honest.
Katy Starr (31:41):
It's hard to focus on that. Yeah.
Clinton Anderson (31:43):
When, when everything's important, nothing's important. So now my health is the most important thing that I have to, to gain because what's the point of having money. If I die earlier of bad health. So I take care of my body. And then after that I take care of the other things that interest me. So, you know, retirement. And I don't judge somebody. If somebody thinks retirement is sitting on the couch, watching TV all day more power to 'em, they've earned it. But I don't think the human body does very well when it sits around. You've gotta keep moving.
Katy Starr (32:14):
Clinton Anderson (32:15):
The human body is designed to move.
Katy Starr (32:18):
Well I mean, you picked a good time to really put in the work for your career and your business because right, that was the most energetic time of your life probably, the energy that you had.
Clinton Anderson (32:29):
Oh yes. Hell yes. When you're, I always say 20 to 30, you are the energizer bunny. That is the decade to work your ass off, build your career, build your skill set, make good life decisions. Now I always tell young, this will a few people a bit, I always tell people, young people do not get married and do not have children before 30. After 30, you wanna get married and knock out 87 kids. I don't give a shit. Knock 'em all out. I don't care. But do not get married and do not have children before 30. And why not? Because at 30 you will have a lot better understanding of who you are, what you want outta life, what life offers you and your maturity level will be so much higher than what it is at 20. As a 20 year old man or woman compared to a 30 year old man or woman is a completely different person.
Clinton Anderson (33:20):
Now, obviously every decade we change, I know I've changed every decade as well. But the two decades as humans that we changed the most is a 10 year old boy and a girl is completely different to a 20 year old boy or girl, and a 20 year old boy or girl is completely different to a 30. So that 20, that decade is a decade to develop your skill set, build your career, find out who you are, find out what you like in life, what you don't like in life, what partners you like, what partners you don't like. But when you have children with somebody, you are tied to them essentially for the rest of your life. Sure you get married. You can get divorced, but I've had two of them. They're ugly as shit. Divorces aren't fun either. So I'm not saying that if you wait to 30, you won't, you know, make a few mistakes.
Clinton Anderson (34:08):
You probably will. But I sure as shit know, you'll make a hell of a lot less mistakes at 30 compared to what you will at 20 or 21 or 22. So I always just tell people that's the decade to get your shit together. Because once you get married and have children and got mortgages, you don't have the freedom to develop your skill set. You don't have the freedom to change jobs whenever you want. You don't have the freedom to pack your shit up and go to another city. I've moved my entire career. I've moved a lot of different places all over the world. Why? Because when I said it's a better career opportunity, what did I do? I packed my suitcase and I got in f*cking a plane and I left. I didn't have to worry about children or family. I didn't have to ask anybody. Do I, can I stay or can I leave? I just did what was best for my career. But when you've got family and children and responsibilities, your whole life changes now, it's not all about you.
Katy Starr (35:02):
Right. No, that's right. And I think if anybody's looking to focus on their career and make that a path that's really important to them, those are some things to seriously consider and think about with timing, for sure.
Clinton Anderson (35:15):
Now after people think I'm, anti-family, I'm not anti-family at all. Like I said, I love kids. I don't have any, but I love kids, but again, if you want to have kids have 'em after 30, have 50 of 'em. I don't give a shit but again, again, wait till your 30. So you know, have a much better understanding of what you are. Very few people can look back and say what was important to 'em as a 20 year old boy or girl is the same, has the same level of importance at 30. Very few. I'm not saying they're not out there, but very few, at 30, you look back and at 20 and you're like, man, I was kind of stupid for doing some of the things I did. And we are because as humans, we are immature at that age, we don't know how the world works.
Katy Starr (35:59):
Well, we're still developing. Right? You're learning and experiencing.
Clinton Anderson (36:03):
Yes, yeah, cut yourself some slack. We're young. We're inexperienced. We don't know. I got married at 21. Shit it was a stupid decision. I didn't know the difference between love and lust. You know, looking back on it, it was foolish, but I was 21. That's why you designed, that's why you are that age. You f*ck up and do stupid things. But you've got an abundance of energy. So what I tell people is you can screw up a lot between 20 and 30, just do not make life changing decisions. And the two things in my mind that are very life changing is having children and getting married. Married is not as bad, you can get out of that, but it's still ugly. But having children for sure is life changing. You can't just return the sum bitches to the store. You can't just say this whole kid rearing thing is a big pain in the ass. Can you take the sum bitch back and gimme a refund? Nope. It's yours forever.
Katy Starr (36:56):
Doesn't work that way. You know, that's good. Good food for thought. I wanna ask you some questions going into some of, kind of what you're doing now and your experience with horses, but who has been your most memorable horse and why?
Clinton Anderson (37:11):
Oh man, that's kind of hard cuz I've had a lot of great horses. I would say Titan was a great horse that I put on YouTube and made him pretty famous. That paint horse stallion Titan, he was a great horse, great minded. You know, I enjoyed kind of bringing him to the world and sharing his whole training. I was the first guy that basically tried to do a training kind of tutorial on YouTube, where I basically showed, I filmed the horse every 30 to 60 days and showed you the horse's training progress. And nobody at up to that point, nobody had done that. And not only did I show you the training progress, I showed people the good, the bad, the ugly. We just, when I filmed that horse, I didn't cut shit out. Like if he was having a bad day and it went to shit, we let it out there. If he was having a great day and I looked like a hero and he looks like a hero, we let it out there. Does that make sense?
Katy Starr (38:03):
It does. Yeah.
Clinton Anderson (38:03):
One thing about me is I'm gonna show you everything. I'm gonna show you the best of it. I'm gonna show you the worst of it. So that horse kind of, now, a lot of people have done that, but at the time it was kind of, you know, unheard of if the horse misbehaved or needed his ass kicked, you know, people had cut that off the editing and only show you the cutesy, cutesy stuff. We never did that. So that was probably the horse that stands out the most.
Katy Starr (38:26):
Okay. So some of your time now is spent in the competition side of things and for anyone who's listening that is not totally familiar with reined cow horse events. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it is and how it's judged at a competition?
Clinton Anderson (38:43):
So reined cow horse basically is like the Western version of a three-day eventer. So you've got three-day eventing. You do jumping, you do dressage. And, is it eventing? What are the three? I think that's what are the three free day eventing? Rachelle, what are they? Dressage, cross country and what's and the stadium jumping. Yeah, they're the three for English riders. So working cow horse, kind of like our Western version of that, you cut a cow, like a cutting class in an arena where you cut a cow out of a herd and you separate it and try to cut it. Then you have a reining pattern, which is like the Western version of a dressage pattern where you do a set pattern with spins and stops and circles. And then you have a cow work or fence work, which is, they let one horse, one cow, sorry into the arena.
Clinton Anderson (39:30):
And you box the cow at the end of the arena. And then you run it down the side, then run it two or three times and turn it, and then you're supposed to bring it to the middle and circle it. So it's basically, you're training one horse to do three separate events, which is very difficult. And that's what I like to do. It's very exciting. It's very action packed. It's very fast. Just like the English three-day eventing, it's a very difficult event because again, you're trying to train a jumping horse, a cross country horse, and a dressage horse, which is, even training one of those horses to do one event is difficult, let alone all three.
Katy Starr (40:07):
Right. And of those three. So the herd work, rein work or the cow work, which one is your favorite to participate in?
Clinton Anderson (40:14):
Well, I probably enjoy the reining more, mainly from a comfort level because I've done that more in my career. So I'm, I'm naturally comfortable doing that. The cutting and cow work are probably my weakest elements, because I haven't spent as many years doing it. So when you're not doing so when you're not as good at something, you naturally feel a little more uncomfortable. So probably the reining is probably what I am more comfortable with, but I actually enjoy the cow portions more, but I'm not as good at it because I haven't done it as much in my career.
Katy Starr (40:44):
For as long. Right. Obviously you have some variation with the reined cow horse, but what drew you to reined cow horse, of all the disciplines that you could have chosen to pursue, to compete in? What was kind of a draw there for you after you were able to put some of this clinician stuff, back off on it a little bit, what was that draw for you?
Clinton Anderson (41:06):
I really liked the all-round horseman. I like horseman that are very capable of, of training horses for more than one event. It's like a true all-round horseman, where in the last 25, 30 years, we've got so specialized where you have reining trainers and cutting trainers and pleasure horse trainers. And they all only do that one niche, where 30, 40 years ago, a horse trainer might have had two or three pleasure horses and trainer three or four reiners. He might have done some halter horses. So he had to, to do a variety of, of events to just make a living. Well, the good news about that is you had to become a really well-rounded horseman to be able to compete in several events. But when you are just a straight reiner, a straight cutter or a straight dressage person, sometimes you can lose some good horsemanship skills that are just make you a well-rounded individual with a horse. So, you know, obviously I wasn't gonna go down the English route. Not that there's anything wrong with it. It just didn't suit me. So I really like the cow events. I like cutting, I like reining. I work working cow horse. I just thought it was exciting. So that's kind of where I went and I still have some reiners too, but I enjoy the cow horses probably more than what I do training in just a straight reining horse.
Katy Starr (42:21):
Oh, awesome. Well, what do you feel like has been your most challenging experience you've had since you started working with horses? And I know that's kind of a lot of years to cover, but what would you find to have been most challenging for you?
Clinton Anderson (42:36):
Oh, probably the business end of it to be honest. I'd probably say employees in the business end of my career was probably the biggest frustration or challenge of my whole career. And you gotta remember, I never wanted to run a business. I never wanted to manage people. I wanted to be a horse trainer. That's what I really wanted to be. So I got into the clinician industry by accident. I was good at it. And then low and behold, I've got a business. So now I've gotta manage employees, train employees. Yeah I, you know, all of that type of stuff. So probably more of an, honestly all of my frustration and heartburn came from the business side of it is interacting with people, employees even more than customers. You know, when you're a workaholic like me, you expect everybody else around you to work as much as you and most people are not going to work the hours that I worked.
Clinton Anderson (43:31):
So that was always a kind of irritational rub on my end and me constantly having to be on the road. So when you're on the road traveling, it's hard to be in two places at once. So it was hard for me to manage the office and manage the employees and constantly be traveling like a touring band and be on the road. Do you know what I mean? So I, I would say the office, you know, I could always call bullshit on the kids outside in the round pen. And if a student come in and said, it took three and a half hours to saddle a two year old, I could say you're full of shit. You're wasting your time. It should have taken 45 minutes. But the ladies in the office could, I couldn't call bullshit on 'em as easily because I didn't come from that world. Like I'm relatively uneducated. I left high school at 15. I didn't graduate high school, never went to college. I'm outside of the horse, quote, unquote clinician world industry, I'm relatively uneducated. Now I'm pretty book, I'm pretty street smart, but, and I'm, but I'm not real book smart. Do you understand the difference?
Katy Starr (44:34):
No. That makes sense. Business is a whole nother field too. I mean, it's like managing people is a full-time job.
Clinton Anderson (44:42):
Basically when you're a manager, anybody that's listening to this that manages a lot of people, you know what managing it is, it's f*cking adult daycare. That's what it is. You're basically managing f*cking people. And it'll drive you to drinking. It'll drive you to pull your hair out. It'll drive you to hate people. You know, it's funny. I've got better now. But when I retired, I wasn't mentally in a very good place at all because I just kind of hate people. I used to have this, I used to have this magnet that was on my fridge. And it used to say, I used to be a people person, but people f*cked that up for me.
Katy Starr (45:16):
Clinton Anderson (45:18):
So when you, if you don't ever manage people, you'll hear what I just said. And you'll say, oh, that Clinton Anderson, he's a piece of shit. How could he say that? But anybody that manages more than seven or eight people full time, they'll listen to what I just said and they're probably rolling around on the ground laughing right now because they're like, holy shit, this mother f*cker actually speaks to the truth. And that's the truth. When you have to manage people, it makes you hate human beings. It really does it just because all you're doing is putting out fires all day. That's all you're doing. You're putting out fires all day. Bobby, Bobby makes a dollar hour more than me. Why is that? You know, Susie said this way. I shit you not, it's like f*cking adult daycare. I swear to God, that's what it is. And you kind of just end up hating that portion of your job. You know what I mean? As management. People think being in management is great. Cuz you just get to boss people around. It's horrible. At least on my end. I thought it was horrible. Maybe I just sucked at it more than everybody else. And I'll be, I'm willing to admit that, you know, maybe there are other people that did it way better than me, but it wasn't my fun part of the job at all.
Katy Starr (46:24):
Well, and anytime anybody owns a business, the reason I think a lot of time people, you know, wanna be an entrepreneur and do their own thing, be their own boss and all of that. They don't go into it with that aspect of having to manage people or having to do the business side of things. They're doing it for whatever their love was that brought them to that point. And so when you have to do all that other extra stuff, it's like, Ugh, this is not what I signed up for.
Clinton Anderson (46:51):
No, it takes the fun ride out of it. You know, that's why, you know, why do you think most art like even, you know, movie stars or people that are artists, they always have a manager that manages their businesses and manages their day-to-day activities. Because most really creative artists, people are horrible with managing people. They're even worse than me. They're horrible. Because that's what makes 'em so great about being artistic. It's a creative ability. Creative people are the opposite of structured. Now I'm a very structured person, which means I'm not typically, typically structured people like me are not very artistic. You know, my idea of f*cking drawing is a stick man. You know what I mean? So most people that are very artistic, if they're smart, they won't handle their own shit. They won't handle their day-to-day lives and management and money and all that.
Clinton Anderson (47:43):
They'll have people that they trust do that for them because typically they suck it at horribly. So yeah. What ends up happening is you start a business that you're passionate about and pretty soon what you love to do when you are passionate about ends up being the smallest part of your day and managing people and managing life and money and stress and bank loans takes over the rest of it. That's pretty much really what happens. And then you stay on that merry go round until you pay all your debt off and you can hopefully get retired. And then you, you know, then you say, I’m moving to a cabin in the middle of Montana and you never wanna see another f*cking human being for the rest of your life.
Clinton Anderson (48:23):
It's funny. Like people would say that to me 20 years ago, they'd say, yeah, I could live in a cabin by myself and the middle of the wilderness and I'd look at 'em and say, man, that would f*cking bore me to death, now at 46, almost 47. I'm like, shit that doesn't look too bad right now. I could actually think about that.
Katy Starr (48:38):
I don't know that. That sounds pretty good to me. And I'm, I don't know, that sounded good to me in my twenties. Not gonna lie. So Clinton, what would you say has been your proudest moment in your life so far?
Clinton Anderson (48:51):
I'll be on, you know, I'm gonna speak the truth and again, it some people off. I would honestly say the most proudest part of the moment. I was very proud at being able to retire at 43. I was very proud of that. You know why? Most people barely f*cking make a living in the horse industry. And I got to retire at 43 with millions. So you’re god damn right I'm proud of that. I did something. I came to this country with $400 to my name and busted ass and broke. And I came to this country at 20 years old and 23 years later, I got to retire at 43. I'm proud of that because here's what happens in the horse industry. Most people that work in the horse industry barely make a living. Meaning, what do I mean by make a living? They make under $50,000 a year.
Clinton Anderson (49:36):
That's the vast majority of people. Whether they work at the feed store, they train horses, they barely make 50 grand a year. There is a handful of people that might make pretty damn good money, a hundred, a hundred thousand a year, 150,000 a year, handful of people. And there's the rare few like me that actually get to retire at a young age with a lot of money. That's like finding a f*cking Yeti unicorn, you know what I'm saying? It's hard enough to find a Yeti, let alone a Yeti unicorn. So to, you know, people think it's bragging about the money. No, it's not bragging about the money. I'm proud that I got to do that because I sure as shit worked my ass off to get it too.
Katy Starr (50:16):
Right. You put in those hours. Yeah.
Clinton Anderson (50:19):
I put in hundreds of thousands of f*cking hours to get that money. And I'm proud of that because a lot of people couldn't do and didn't do what I did. I, again, I'm very open. I'm not the most talented horse trainer. I'm not the best horse trainer. There's a lot of things that I am average at, or even below average. But what I did do, that was exceptional, better than everybody else is, I was willing to work harder than everybody else. That's the one true gift that I kicked them all in the ass is I was willing to work harder than my competition. So I'm living proof. You don't have to be the most talented. You don't have to be the most gifted, but if you are willing to work harder than the rest, you can overcome a lot of your natural ability that's lacking.
Katy Starr (51:04):
Right. Well, and I think you're really good at relaying the message as well. I often talk to our equine nutritionists, Dr. Duren and Dr. Cubitt about how much I appreciate how they share information because they take this scientific jargon that some people have a really hard time understanding and put it into terms that they can get and understand. And I feel like when it comes to training horses, you have that same type of skill, which has been very helpful for what you do.
Clinton Anderson (51:38):
Yes. I yeah. I've probably got a natural gift of the gab. Sure. I'm not gonna deny that, I I've got a natural gift of the gab and I'm naturally a good teacher, but that will only get most people that have natural talent. Okay. Most people, not all, did not say the word all, but most people that have natural talent at something, typically don't ever really use that talent to its greatest ability because it came so natural for them. They kind of piss it away. Because it's so easy for them. So I did have a natural ability to communicate. I had a natural ability to teach, but that alone is not what made me successful. What made me successful was the grind. What made me successful is putting in the hours and hours and hours of boring, tedious shit. You know, for the first 10 years of my career, I was on the road 45 weekends a year. So from Thursday to Monday, I was in a different hotel room, you know, every weekend for, well, I wanna say every weekend, 45 weekends a year for 10 years.
Katy Starr (52:44):
Yeah that's a lot.
Clinton Anderson (52:45):
So, that's a f*cking lot. Yes. Like I've kind of got a bit of a weirdo about it, but like, if I go to a hotel room now I don't travel that much now, but I leave the light on, in the bathroom because I've woke up, I, I shit you not, I've woke up in hotel rooms in my career and I've been on the road so much. I've woke up in the middle of the night, one or two o'clock in the morning and all the lights are off and I've kind of had a little bit of a panic attack. Like I don't know where I am. I don't, I don't know where I'm sleeping. I don't know the room. Like I've traveled so much that I've got, I have to leave a light on in the bathroom and I'll close the door. So a little bit of light shines under the door because I've woke up in a panic, not knowing, you know, where I am just to be perfectly honest. Basically, you know, Joe Dirt being a carnie. That's what the, what I was for at least 10 years. I was a carnie. I just lived on the road and everybody that's hears that thinks that's an exciting adventure. It's about an exciting adventure for about four months.
Katy Starr (53:45):
Yeah. For a little while. And then it gets old fast I'm sure.
Clinton Anderson (53:49):
Yeah. And then after that, it's not. It's a carnival that sucks. That's what you're going to, it's a carnival that sucks.
Katy Starr (53:56):
Yeah. There's not that consistency.
Clinton Anderson (53:58):
There's a lot of things about making money. That aren't a lot of fun, but that's why you have to do 'em because it's like cleaning your house. It ain't fun cleaning your house. But if you don't, your house comes, turns into a shithole a pretty quickly. So it's, you have to do it. And that's a lot of people that have gone into my industry and wanted to be clinicians. They've seen the money I've made and they think, oh yes, I'll just do what Clinton did. And typically they'll start out for two or three years and they'll do well financially. And then right about year three, the grind starts. Then it's like, man, I gotta keep staying on the road. I gotta keep advertising. I gotta keep promoting. I gotta hire more people. I gotta grow this. It turns into a whole nother animal, and it did for me and I got on a treadmill for about 20 years where I was like, holy shit. I hope I can get off this treadmill.
Katy Starr (54:47):
Yeah, no kidding. If you thought this was good, stay tuned for part two of my interview with Clinton next Tuesday, for a special bonus episode, he shares what he's learned most about himself in life so far, his biggest regret and how your greatest strength can also be your greatest weakness. Don't miss this bonus episode releasing Tuesday, September 20th. Thanks for listening to the Beyond the Barn Podcast by Standlee Forage. We'd love for you to share our podcast with your favorite people and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform. Until next time, keep your cinch tight and don't forget to turn off the water.